The Best Art Doesn’t Win. The Art that Everyone Sees Wins

First we come to terms with, then we sort how to solve for it, and the perspective of how long it's gonna take.In episode 34 of the Art Business Morning Show, Patrick and Nick discuss a critical insight for artists and photographers: the best art doesn't necessarily win; the art that everyone sees does. They argue that distribution and marketing are paramount to success in the art world. The hosts emphasize that exceptional craft alone is insufficient for building a business; effective promotion and marketing are crucial. They share anecdotes about artists who, despite not being the most talented, achieve significant sales through diligent marketing efforts. The episode stresses perseverance, the importance of digital marketing, and the need to develop a strategy that includes creating art with distribution in mind.

Podcast Transcribe

Patrick Shanahan: All right, coming up on today's edition of the Art Business Morning Show. This is episode number 34. The Best Art Doesn't Win. The Art that Everybody Sees Wins. Specifically, whatever Nick wants to rant about because he's real fired up on this one. Now, intro music. All right. Go to earbuds only.



Nick Friend: You still hear me okay?



Patrick Shanahan: Yep.



Nick Friend: All right. Well, it's been a while. Welcome back to the Art Business Morning Show. I don't think we've been on here for a rant, the two of us, since the good old fashioned NFT episode.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, about a month ago.



Nick Friend: Which, I mean, I just hear about the NFTs on a week out basis.



Patrick Shanahan: We're gonna have to do a follow-up on that one, but that is not today's subject. Is it, Nick?



Nick Friend: No, it is not. It is not.



Patrick Shanahan: So you've been pinging me in Slack for about two weeks wanting to drop this one.



Nick Friend: Yeah.



Patrick Shanahan: You're fired up about this one. So get ready.



Nick Friend: Okay, so yeah, this is a big one guys. The Best Art Doesn't Win. The best art doesn't necessarily win; the art that everyone sees wins, okay? The art that everyone sees wins, right? In other words, if your art is not getting seen, it doesn't matter, nothing matters, right? And here's the thing, the reason I've been wanting to do this, you and I have talked about this for a long time, right? And this is a widely known thing in the business world, guys, amongst venture capitalists, entrepreneurs, people that are building startup companies and stuff like that. And it's actually the best products don't win, the products that everyone uses win, okay?



Patrick Shanahan: Yup.



Nick Friend: Here is a trash heap, guys, a trash heap of companies that had the best product or amazing products that went out of business. Wrap your head around that. This is so profound. So profound, okay? Because everyone thinks that if I have the best product, I'm gonna win, right? You probably think that every company that's out there, the only ones that have won in their space are the ones that had the best product, right?



Patrick Shanahan: Don't you guys think that? You probably do. If you didn't know that, that's not the way that it works. Nobody that's in the upper echelons of business ever thinks that way, right? Because they've learned the hard way that it doesn't work, okay? The best products don't automatically win.



Nick Friend: Because why is that? Why is that? Because distribution and/or marketing, right? Same thing. Distribution or marketing is the only thing that matters, okay? Let me put it this way. So for artists and photographers, like I'll bring it home very close. Just today or yesterday somebody bought a piece of art in your niche, okay? And they didn't buy it from you because they didn't know about you, okay? Plain and simple.



Patrick Shanahan: And that's happening every single day, okay? It doesn't mean they're going. I'm gonna go and spend five hours or eight hours or 30 hours of my time going and finding the best person, art landscapes in Montana. And then I'm gonna buy that one. No, that's not how it works.



Nick Friend: Art is coming at them. Marketing is coming at them in their world, wherever they're at, right? Somebody got their attention somehow in some way, okay? And that person had a need, and the need was fulfilled with that artist or photographer, okay? And that sale was taken out of the market. The demand was taken completely out of the market, and you got no part of it.



Patrick Shanahan: And you might be the best Montana photographer in the world or Montana artist with the exact content that that person wanted. But if they don't know who you are, okay? And they're not seeing your art, you're never going to win, okay? And so what happens most often, Pat? What do most artists and photographers spend their time on, right? Maybe trying to become better and better and better at their craft.



Nick Friend: And there's nothing wrong with that. Like, you should try to get better at your craft, right? But what happens is that one part of the equation gets left behind way too much. And it's the marketing piece. It's the distribution piece. It's the understanding that this piece is the only thing that matters, right? And then now I'll get to another main point.



Patrick Shanahan: I've been in the art industry for 20 plus years now, okay? And you know what I have seen and what is the rule in that world that I will continue to see, Pat, and you will too, and that will never, ever stop happening? We will continue to see artists and photographers out there criticizing other artists for their work and how it's not good, it's not good enough.



Nick Friend: And why are they selling all of this art? But they are terrible. And my two-year-old could have done it, or I did that in kindergarten, or I'm better than them. I mean, that's all I hear. And people always talk about Peter Lik, who's one of the best-selling photographers out there and has galleries all over the world. They'll criticize him all the time.



Patrick Shanahan: I'm better than him. He's not that good.



Nick Friend: Exactly, you're missing the point. You totally missed the point, right? It's like, there's a whole group of people laughing when you have that statement because you've totally missed it. Yes, you are better than him, but he's playing the game correctly, and you've missed it.



Patrick Shanahan: That's the thing, right? And so if you know this as much as I do, we talk to thousands and thousands and thousands of artists and photographers every single month over these types of Zoom calls and our customers and everything like that. And we know full well that nobody is playing the game the right way.



Nick Friend: And I say it like, if you're trying to play the game, i.e, you wanna build a business around your art or some decent income. If you don't care, then obviously this doesn't mean anything, right? What I'm saying doesn't mean anything, move along, no worries. But we're here to talk about art business, right? This is our business mornings and how to build a better business for your art.



Patrick Shanahan: And you've got to understand this part of the game. This is why regular average artists and photographers outsell world-class, world-renowned artists and photographers every day, all the time. All the time, it's not even an anomaly. Pat, at this point, is it? It's the norm.



Nick Friend: Yap. It's the norm. Because also the more talented an artist is, the more talented an artist or a photographer is, the more we tend to see that they downplay the distribution or marketing side of things, right? And the more reliant they are on products, mentally speaking, right? Psychologically, they think that their talent alone should win the day, right? That's what they think.



Patrick Shanahan: They think their talent is going to carry them and build the business. And fish are going to jump into their boat. Otherwise, like then it shouldn't happen at all, when that's not the way things work. That's just not the way that the world works. Unfortunately, the way that you build a great business in general, not just in the art business, is you have to prioritize and focus on the distribution piece, the marketing piece.



Nick Friend: And so the best art doesn't win, it's the art that everyone sees that wins. I.e., the ones who are doing, the people who are doing the most marketing, and there are artists out there with the most eyeballs. Those are the ones that win at the end of the day. And if you want to build a great business around your art, you've got to play the game that way.



Patrick Shanahan: There's something inherently unfair about it. At least on the surface, right? Like, is it a meritocracy? Yes, but, right? It's only a meritocracy. It is a meritocracy, okay? How good the creations are important, right? Not that we should get involved in a game with like, is this art better than that art? Because it's all in the eye of the beholder, right? But it's really a two-stage game.



Nick Friend: There's two games to the game. There's the creation, and then there's everything else. Which primarily consists of the promotion.



Patrick Shanahan: Yep, exactly. Go on.



Nick Friend: Yeah, and you can't hide from it. Like, when you really understand this, this is the secret guys. This is actually the secret behind the whole thing, is that everybody always worries about competition.



Patrick Shanahan: Like everybody's got an iPhone in their pocket, right? Like, how do I compete? There's a gazillion artists in the world. How do I compete?



Nick Friend: Exactly, like everybody out there, everybody out there is not focusing on distribution. They're not prioritizing marketing. We can tell you that for a fact, nobody has as much as hidden we've...



Patrick Shanahan: They all know it.



Nick Friend: Everybody knows it, everybody knows it.



Patrick Shanahan: And if you simply focus on that, okay? And you take that really seriously, and you understand like, wait a minute, no matter how good my art is, no matter what I do with that, like, it doesn't mean that I'm gonna win. I've got to build that



 other side of it.



Nick Friend: I got to prioritize that. I've got to have a solution for that. I need to audit what I'm doing right now and go, am I really like playing this game the right way? Or am I playing it the way that everybody else is? That's actually starving, like 99% of the artists and photographers out there.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, somebody on Instagram said, you can't get motion without pro-motion.



Nick Friend: There you go, right?



Patrick Shanahan: Exactly.



Nick Friend: Some sums it up in one word. The good news of it though, the good news of it though is, yes, you all need attention, but what I've been blown away, time and time again about recently is, not all attention is equal, and it's not all down to a numeric equation, i.e., Nick has 500,000 Instagram followers, and I have a thousand Instagram followers, and he has 5,000 people on his email list, and I have 500 people on my email list. That doesn't necessarily mean his business is bigger than mine, right? Like, not everything is created equal. And in marketing startup world, everybody goes back to this original essay by this guy named Kevin Kelly entitled "1000 True Fans."



Patrick Shanahan: And sort of the notion of the essay is, with 1000 true fans that really love what you do and follow you. If you can build that, you can build a sustainable business, right? And we're seeing that, we're seeing that across the board, right? It's not about 100 million Instagram followers, becoming a Kardashians.



Nick Friend: You can build a really healthy and robust art photography business with 1000 true fans, right? That really love what you do and are super engaged. And so it is perhaps deflating at some time to go back to your title, right? The Best Art Doesn't Win. That can be intimidating, right? Like, so if I focused 100% of my effort on my craft, I'm not gonna get there.



Patrick Shanahan: No, not necessarily, you're not. But it's not like you have to focus 100% on your promotion and you need 100 million followers. You can do a massive amount of damage or success your business with 1000 true fans. It's completely true. And by the way, in today's day and age, in the market that we live in, as we're recording this, April 27, 2021, digital marketing is all you got.



Nick Friend: What else is there? What else is there right now, right? Like, I was listening to another podcast the other day, and these people are perennial art and they're show goers, right? Like load up the van, drive across the United States, Canada, wherever the best shows are, they're going there. And it was really interesting to hear some folks that have made their living doing that, for the last 20 years.



Patrick Shanahan: Breaking down some of the mechanics of booth fees and the travel fees and the hotel fees and what they need to make back on a show. And the fact that all of the shows aren't theirs, like, their income is down, right? And if their income is down, guess what they're not doing? They're not promoting their own shows, right? So you're showing up with the similar booth fee, the 30, 40, 50, maybe if you're lucky, 60, 70% attendance of what it's been years previous, those things don't cancel, right?



Nick Friend: The galleries over half of them are closed. The ones that are, we are starting to hear some ridiculous stories about the renegotiation of splits. Sorry, we can't do a 50/50 right now. The demand is too high, we need to do a 60/40. So if you're willing to take that, we're willing to get you in here and start selling for you.



Patrick Shanahan: So, the larger point is for whatever this, call it COVID hangover that we're gonna go through 12, 24 months, 36 months, whatever it might be, hopefully, it's less than that. Digital marketing is the only thing you got. There's nothing else you can do to get your name out there. I mean, maybe some hacky stuff on the fringes but for most folks that are listening to this, like, you have to start embracing the promotion.



Nick Friend: You have to start embracing the digital marketing. You have to understand the distribution channels out there and how to go and get them. It's critical.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, and I think the other thing too, is like, when you look at a statement like this, like "the best art doesn't win, the art that everyone sees wins," it should inform your priorities.



Nick Friend: If you start with that and you work backwards, Pat, how different does it make you think about the way that you run your business as he walks away, right? Right as he walks away. But it should make you think differently about your business every day, right? So, like, for example, if the art that everyone sees wins, right? And not just the most talented art, then you've got to think about, like, what type of art you're creating that's actually gonna get, I'm getting an echo on your end.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, it should be fixed.



Nick Friend: Okay, yeah. So, you wanna think about the art that you're creating, is it gonna get the distribution? Like, is it gonna get the shares? Is it gonna get the attention? Is it gonna get far enough to get the eyeballs, the requisite eyeballs that are needed to actually like build the type of business that you want? And so it just, if you start with this and then you walk backward, it changes everything.



Patrick Shanahan: It's changed everything for me in my career because I always, as I built companies over the years, I've always thought like the best products win, the best product wins. That's all that matters. When you get the best product, you get the distribution, and the distribution is easy, and that is the biggest lie ever.



Nick Friend: It's the wrong information, and I don't want any of you guys to think that way. That it's just a matter of creating that one piece of art or that two pieces of art or whatever it is, and that's gonna take you to the promised land. It doesn't work that way. Like, there's a lot of talk about Facebook.



Patrick Shanahan: And so since everybody is on Facebook, that's listening to this for the most part, like, people talk about how there were a lot of social networks at the same time as Facebook. And some of them had better UIs and design and all that stuff. But guess what? Facebook had the distribution, they figured it out faster and all of that.



Nick Friend: And do you remember just recently Facebook did like a design facelift on their user interface, right? But it was lagging for years, you know? I mean, it hadn't changed, and in terms of design standards, it was way behind, didn't matter. Didn't stop them from becoming a what? $300 billion company or whatever it is.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah.



Nick Friend: So, and there are examples after examples after examples, right? So it's an important thing to think about as like your first step. Like, okay wait, if that's how it works, how am I gonna approach the next piece that I create? Because you might actually create something different than you might've otherwise just thought up.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, you wonder, like, what's our tactical practical advice out of all this? I mean, I suppose if there's one takeaway coming to terms with the statement is absolute fact "the best art doesn't win, the art that everybody sees wins," and even if you just take some steps to figure out before you put the finger to the shutter button, before you put the brush to the canvas or whatever medium you create, how are you gonna promote it? How are you gonna get the attention? Like, think about that intentionally,



Nick Friend: And you're already 99% of the way there, further than most artists and photographers, right? Who are just creating for the love of craft, if that's what they wanna do. And don't get me wrong. This is not a value judgment on what that looks like or doesn't look like right? Like, no one is saying you can't create what you like, what you love, what inspires and motivates you.



Patrick Shanahan: But if you don't think about the promotion into it, you just have a hard way.



Nick Friend: Yeah, you're gonna have a tough time building a business.



Patrick Shanahan: You just have a hard way, right? And I feel like I always get drawn into that, the being a musician and selling out argument, which was like such a thing when we were kids, right? Like, who do we use to listen to when we were kids and love like no effects? And it's like, no, they're never gonna sell out.



Nick Friend: They're not gonna sell out. They're gonna do things their way, right?



Patrick Shanahan: Until they do.



Nick Friend: Yeah, until they do. It's like, at a point, you got to make a value judgment about whether or not you want to eat and sustain your family based on the craft that you love. And so I gotta weigh in, kid, you're gonna have to carry for a sec.



Patrick Shanahan: Okay. Yeah, and I also think that like, in terms of practical advice, I think the most talented people... This is your choice, okay? This is not like, it's not a luck thing or like a chance that you haven't been successful yet. It's a choice. And you guys all



 know it.



Nick Friend: You all know it. And what I mean by that is that like, the vast majority of the people that we talk to, artists and photographers, like they have not committed to, like really, really committed to like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna prioritize the marketing aspect for the next five to 10 years. And they take that type of a viewpoint on it.



Patrick Shanahan: They haven't committed to that. They haven't done that, you know?



Nick Friend: Yeah.



Patrick Shanahan: And so if you haven't done that and you haven't said, like, it's not gonna be fun in the beginning, but I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna go after it. If you haven't done that, it's on you.



Nick Friend: Yeah.



Patrick Shanahan: It's just straight up, it's your choice, right? You've got the secret.



Nick Friend: You've got the secret. Now you understand that it's more about promotion than anything. You know that if you can commit to the business, you could have average art, okay? And outsell really, really, really talented people because it is the truth. It happens all the time. It's happening on our platform almost every single day, right? And so it's just, it's your choice.



Patrick Shanahan: Will you actually commit to like doing what it takes to build a real business? And if you talk to anyone about what it takes to build a real business, it's three to five years of grinding, three to five years, right?



Nick Friend: Yes.



Patrick Shanahan: So you just do that and you persevere and you get through that and you understand that if you wanna know who's winning, it's those people, those are the people who are winning.



Nick Friend: If you're on our email list, okay? And you're looking at our social media posts, you see our Facebook and our Instagram posts and stuff, and you see this guy sold $100,000 last year, this guy sold $250,000. This guy sold $30,000 last month. Who do you think these people are, guys? Do you think these are people who just had their talent and got lucky? 0% of them.



Patrick Shanahan: 100% of them, are people who are committed to the marketing and promotion and distribution, right? They understood that 'the best art doesn't win' and they committed to building their business. That's it. That's it. If there's one piece of advice, a practical advice, Pat, that is the most useful for everyone on here, it's go grind it out for five years, truth.



Nick Friend: Straight up, right? Just go grind that, you might not have the right piece right now, but you've got to get started somewhere. You've got to start marketing. You've got to get it out there. Once you start doing that and you commit to it, your next piece will probably be better than your last.



Patrick Shanahan: And then the next one, and then the next one, and the next one. And it's a series of slow, step-by-step compounding that happens over years, that builds every single business. No one is any different. No one is gonna go any faster or slower, right? It's all the same. But you just have to ask yourself whether you're gonna be one of those people, you know? And if you tend to think that, oh, I'm so talented because my friends and family told me that and whatever and I won an award here or there,



Nick Friend: And that should be it. You're gonna lose. I will tell you right now, that does not translate into dollars. Awards and all that stuff do not just automatically translate into dollars. Now, if you have all of that and you commit to the promotion in the market and you, when I say commit, I mean, really commit, right? Not dip your toe in the pool.



Patrick Shanahan: Maybe I'll get out if it's cold today. But if the temperature's perfect, I'll stay in there. In other words, everything that I do better work. Everybody must love all the marketing I'm doing or I'm gonna quit and give up at three months or six months or one year, okay? If you're gonna be that way, don't even do it. Just don't even bother, 'cause you already lost.



Nick Friend: Yeah, you know what's so interesting too, is like, I feel like a broken record on these things, 'cause all I ever do all day is just cite the fact that, I can see on my camera that my wife is coming home by the way, which means where our child will now be sorted. Weekend, week out, there are people coming onto the art business workshops that are 70 years old, that are 75 years old.



Patrick Shanahan: And they're talking about, okay, what do I need to do? What's the next step? Like, what do I need to start working on?



Nick Friend: Pat, and they're doing it.



Patrick Shanahan: I'm like, I've plugged into my marketing, but it's not just that, it's like understand the perspective. You guys do not have midlife crises.



Nick Friend: You are an artist, you are a photographer, you are a creator for life, okay? Do you know how much time you have to sort this out? My guess is most of you listening to this are not in your 70s. Guess what? The woman I talked to yesterday, effervescent, ambitious, full of energy, charged up, ready to go. She's got another 15 years of promotion in her, minimum.



Patrick Shanahan: If not longer, right? You've got this business for life.



Nick Friend: I'm so glad you brought up the age component because in our customers, in office hours, and for those of you who don't know, you guys at art storefronts, we have, if you're a member of our storefronts, we have private office hours a couple of days a week, where we're doing, our marketing team is doing one-on-one coaching, consulting, all right? Providing advice to the artists and photographers, okay? And so everybody is on camera for the most part,



Patrick Shanahan: And we're talking to these people face to face. And we know really well, we call it the Art Storefronts Family. But like, Pat, one of the most profound things is that people over 60, over 70, some of the most motivated customers that we have, some of the most motivated, it makes me feel that sometimes people, it takes them to get through their 30s and their 40s and their 50s before they finally realize, okay, I actually have to play the long game.



Nick Friend: I actually am gonna have to work at this. It's like, so many people, it takes them so long to finally learn those lessons, but they're grinding it out and they're doing it. They are doing it. And it is working for them. And it is the most inspiring, you are talking about inspiring, that is the most inspiring thing that I could possibly imagine, right? Because what do you also see? We also see people in their 20s, 30s, and 40s who are so quick to quit, right? At the smallest sign of adversity,



Patrick Shanahan: At the smallest sign of adversity. Oh, that's not the way it should be. I sold so well in galleries over the past five years, dah, dah, dah. This should be easier to sell online or yeah. I mean, we could just go on and on about all the stories, but it's just, that part to me is the most inspiring thing.



Nick Friend: And so another great piece of practical advice to give to everybody is that, look, if you're in your 60s or 70s or even in your 80s, we know artists and photographers that are doing it and are doing it successfully, hands down, like, full stop, that is a fact, that is an absolute fact. They are doing it online.



Patrick Shanahan: They're building their own websites. They're doing the whole thing. You can too. If you don't think you can, that's your own mental excuse that you're telling yourself because you can do it, all right? And everyone that's younger than that, you got no excuse. You've got no excuse. But the best advice there, the practical advice for all of you that are younger is, just don't be one of those people. Know that everybody in your age group is quitting fast, okay?



Nick Friend: Yep.



Patrick Shanahan: And don't be one of those. Get the real information, research what I just said, like, you will be able to confirm all of the stuff that I've said about the best products don't win, okay? The best art doesn't win, it's the art that everyone sees win, and that it takes three to five years of grinding it out to really get your marketing going, okay? And otherwise, you'll just be one of the people that quits in six months or a year.



Nick Friend: Yeah, I love that. My buddy's dad is a pastor, and he would tell this story. It's like, he would call it his lesson of the fly versus the ant, right? And he told it when we were driving in a car, right? We're driving in a car, we're actually driving out to Texas from California. And a fly somehow got in the car, right? And it was this big 15 passenger van that he was driving.



Patrick Shanahan: So the huge front windshield on this thing and the fly is trying to escape. What does the fly do? It just keeps going whack into the windshield, right? Hitting the window, whack, trying to escape into the windshield whack. And then eventually would just tie it out and like sit there and potentially die. And it



 just kept whacking its head against the windshield, whacking its head against the windshield, whacking its head against the windshield.



Nick Friend: And I think a lot of artists do that, right? And the whacking the head against the windshield is you try one particular thing, and it doesn't really sell that well, and you get the pangs of self-doubt. Am I even a good enough artist? Do I even have any talent? Is this a BS career? Was my dad right, I should have become a doctor, a lawyer, right? Whack, whack, all those pangs of self-doubt.



Patrick Shanahan: The ant, on the other hand, I don't know if you've ever, you can go back to your childhood days when you used to molest ants, right? And torture them with everything else. If you'd break the long line of an ant, right? So it's got something that it can't really go over. What do they do? They just go right around.



Nick Friend: They just go right around, right? Like if you put a big boulder in the way or whatever, the ants are just, they figured it out and they just go right around. They just take another route. And I go back to Picasso, I always talk about Picasso. When he died, he had 45,000 pieces in his inventory. Do you know what happened? Some of those pieces, nobody wanted, nobody wanted.



Patrick Shanahan: And so did he quit? Did he whack himself into the windshield six times and fall down on the ground? No, isn't it? He just went right around to the next thing, right? And kept trying new things and new things and new things and figuring out interesting distribution angles. And it is just a new form of work that people actually want and they will actually buy and there you go.



Nick Friend: It's as clear as that, right?



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, and you just have to keep going. Paul Graham, who is a billionaire entrepreneur, really famous, he started this group called Y Combinator up in Silicon Valley, right? And for those of you who don't know, it's like, it is the top accelerator firm, right? Which they fund early-stage companies, okay? Soft tech companies usually and...



Nick Friend: Incubator.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, incubator and they, like a ton of big names have come out, their most recently Coinbase, right? And he wrote, he was asked that he ended up writing like a blog post on this, but out of all of the startups that they've seen for the last like 15 years, that have gone through there, right? Airbnb, Uber, like all these big names that you know, what is the number one factor in entrepreneurs that has determined their success? And he was asked to boil it down to one quality and you know what it was? Grit, perseverance, okay? Perseverance, okay? And what he specifically said was that most entrepreneurs, they quit too early and the other ones, they don't.



Nick Friend: They just keep, they keep going. They keep going, and so the lesson there is, if it's not working for you, that's okay. Just keep going, keep, just get one step better every day, okay? Every month. If you're getting a little bit better every month, okay? Your trajectory is getting better and you go and you keep going.



Patrick Shanahan: If your marketing isn't working, make it a little better, do something different today, change your strategy, talk to people, get advice, okay? But get better every day, all right? And understand that grit and perseverance is really the whole thing, you know? And I think that this is the most important part about it is what he said is that, what they've noticed over the years is, if you have the grit and the perseverance, what ends up happening is that you're at it for a longer timeframe.



Nick Friend: And you know what happens in that timeframe? Luck. You've increased the surface area of the time, okay? That you're after it, to where luck can happen, where a big collector, a big win, a hotel, some sort of a big job, you're increasing the odds of luck happening when you're at it for a longer period of time.



Patrick Shanahan: And the people that have the grit and the perseverance that keeps just going and getting better, guess what happens? They get luckier, they're luckier. And you know the saying, like, don't hang out with unlucky people?



Nick Friend: Yeah.



Patrick Shanahan: It's like, there's a reason. Because they tend to be quitters. People who are unlucky tend to be quitters.



Nick Friend: And you got to qualify the luck, right? Like, we're not talking about dumb luck. There's different kinds of luck.



Patrick Shanahan: Correct.



Nick Friend: Like, the dumb luck is...



Patrick Shanahan: It's manufactured luck.



Nick Friend: Yes, the dumb luck is that you walk in and you won the lotto, right? Like you bought a lottery ticket or you found a lottery ticket that fell out of someone's pocket and ended up being the winner.



Patrick Shanahan: That's dumb luck. Okay, the odds of that are you Mickey Mouse ridiculously low.



Nick Friend: Pat, out of 5,000 art storefronts artists and photographers, how many do we know that have had dumb luck like that? I can't name one.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, I'm sure there's one or two, because of odds.



Nick Friend: I'm sure there is, but out of how long we've been doing this, I can't name one.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah.



Nick Friend: But go on.



Patrick Shanahan: There's another kind of luck. And that's the luck that comes out of execution, right? Everyone loves to call it, oh, they were lucky, they were lucky, they were lucky. It's like, whatever analogy I might come up with, but you're grinding at something for a tremendous amount of time and you're learning.



Nick Friend: And all of a sudden you're in the right place at the right time. It's not dumb luck. You created it. The luck is a by-product of the grinding and how hard you are hitting it. And the fact that you were working and you were constantly pivoting and trying. So, there's that side of the lucky equation.



Patrick Shanahan: But I also loved what I heard here on a couple of the comments. And maybe you saw them, maybe you didn't, but you know, Angela Leak is on here. And then there was another one, I can't remember. Is it Molly? Yeah, Molly, and they're talking about the stuff in their life that they have, right? Like kids and taking care of people and single mom and multiple jobs and bankrupt, like all of that stuff, right? And we've all got stuff in our lives.



Nick Friend: But the thing is that when are you gonna get started, right? And like, the thing that I'm gonna take away from that is, we all have stuff, we always will have stuff. There's gonna be crap in our lives. But as long as you keep grinding throughout it, as long as you get started right away, and especially as it pertains to an art or photography career, everyone thinks that what's preventing them from taking the next step is something that's craft-related.



Patrick Shanahan: Finishing enough pieces, getting a little bit better at what they do, photographing the work, all of these things, no one ever talks about the fact that you don't need any of that sorted to start in on the marketing. In fact, once you start in on the marketing and you start getting the feedback and you start getting the interaction, that will completely change the course of your career and what you're working on.



Nick Friend: You will never be 100%. You'll never have enough pieces to launch. You'll never have all the artwork photographed, and that's totally okay. None of that matters. Everything will change once you get in the water and you start making course corrections. So the time to start is literally 30 years ago.



Patrick Shanahan: Next best time today, that's not, as cliché as that is, so completely true. And thinking that you're gonna figure that stuff out, okay? Thinking that you're gonna know what the market wants, you're gonna know what your next style is in a vacuum, with you just sitting in your house, creating your stuff is folly, it's folly.



Nick Friend: So it really, this is just a two-prong operation, right? Like the marketing is as important as the creation and it always will be. And guess what? It always has been. It always has been. They just don't ever tell you that.



Patrick Shanahan: That's right. Exactly, that's the inside information. That's the secret, right? It's like, that's what it is.



Nick Friend: That's what it is. And if you're trying to create art in a vacuum, disconnected from society, from the world, how well do you think that's gonna do? Odds are, like, hey, you might get lucky, but odds are that it's not gonna work very well. Like the odds are heavily against you, you know?



Patrick Shanahan: Yap.



Nick Friend: If you're creating it without any understanding of a group of people or society, like whatever it is that you think will like the art. And like, that's just not a good way to go. And so maybe that's another piece of practical advice there. Maybe a lot of you guys are doing that, you know? And maybe that's the part that you got to switch around.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, it's not easy.



Nick Friend: No.



Patrick Shanahan: No, it's not easy, but boy, are there more upsides for you guys than other businesses? Because again, I



 go back to the 75-year-old woman that I spoke to yesterday, who was just, I mean, this woman is darling, great energy and she's still grinding.



Nick Friend: She's doing it.



Patrick Shanahan: Most of these people that are not 75, in fact, I'm talking to people that are in their 20s and 30s on a regular basis. And I look at that and it's like, you've got the next 40 years, at least grind on that. When you put that into perspective of how long that is, phenomenal.



Nick Friend: Phenomenal.



Patrick Shanahan: If you just do the work, put in the work.



Nick Friend: I mean, we're getting called motivational speakers here. We do sound a little raw today but it's from the right place. It's from the right place. And by the way, this is a two-parter in more ways than one. Yes, we do sound like motivational speakers. But guess what? It's as much a window into what you should be doing as it is a reflection for ourselves.



Patrick Shanahan: We realize this is the truth. We have to grind this hard ourselves every day too. Can't stop, never stop. The struggle never ends. Like the marketing promotion piece just never goes away. It just doesn't.



Nick Friend: Yeah, that's right. That's right. Never goes away.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah. No, and it's not easy, Kathy, for an extreme introvert, right? It's not easy being on video for the first time. Prior to the pandemic, wasn't on it once. Hated videos, still hate it, right? Still hate it. But you gotta, you just have to be contrarian about things. This is the way of the world right now. That's just...



Nick Friend: Everybody has things that aren't easy for me. And there's things that aren't easy for Patrick, and there's things that are easy for every single person out there, right?



Patrick Shanahan: And those are usually the ones that you need to focus on the most.



Nick Friend: That's right.



Patrick Shanahan: Exactly, they are what they are. We all have our own problems and we all have our own things that are not easy. But be careful pointing those out because you're convincing yourself. You're convincing yourself even more, that that's your problem, rather than you know what? How am I gonna get around this and how am I gonna do this?



Nick Friend: That's right.



Patrick Shanahan: It is funny introverts that are really successful.



Nick Friend: What's your takeaways? Knowing that this is the case, right? Knowing that the best art doesn't get seen. What are your takeaways?



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, my takeaway, like the big takeaway is like, you're talking about like coming from the art. And it's like, when we're inspired to have these sessions here and talk about these topics, it's because we're seeing this in mass throughout the art industry, right? With artists and photographer entrepreneurs.



Nick Friend: And we see it as something that's clogging their drain, right? And we use that metaphor as an example, it's like, it's their big boulder, the big blocker in their path towards success. And when people, when there's like a mass hysteria, if you could call it that, or like a mass delusion that the only thing that matters is your product.



Patrick Shanahan: And that's all you should focus on every single little bit of detailed, dah dah, dah, and thinking that that's going to make you successful, and that's gonna drive your business, and that's gonna be the fuel behind it. You know, like it's so important for everybody to take away that that's not it.



Nick Friend: There's plenty of talent out there guys, but why is it that the best art doesn't sell the most? Why is it that you are constantly seeing people who are not as good as you potentially, that are selling hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, right? Because they figured out that the marketing is the most important part, the distribution and they're after it.



Patrick Shanahan: They're starting with that and they're working backwards. So that's the big takeaway. Take a moment to think about this. Like, are you constantly, like, what do you think? Like, did you walk into this thinking that the best products win? You know what? Like, if that's the case, I used to think that way.



Nick Friend: Changed my life to actually flip that around and go. Wow, I didn't realize that. How many times have I bought a product? And I didn't realize that there was a better product out there. And I regretted the product I bought, but I didn't know about the other products. I just didn't know about it, you know? And that company lost, and so did I.



Patrick Shanahan: So did I, 'cause I got the worst product.



Nick Friend: Yup, got hit it when that happens.



Patrick Shanahan: I know. (chuckles) But it happens.



Nick Friend: Yeah, it does, so...



Patrick Shanahan: So get your art out there, focus on the distribution. If it's not working, do something different. Make some different pieces. Try different subject matter, get some better advice.



Nick Friend: Find people who are doing things that are working and follow what they're doing, right? Get a better strategy. But you gotta solve this piece. If you're gonna be an artist or a photographer and you know you're gonna be doing this for the next three, five, 10, 20 years, like, you know what to do.



Patrick Shanahan: You know what to do, the art that everyone sees wins, right? So make that happen.



Nick Friend: I feel like we covered some good tropes in this one. Start with demand and work backward, have the perspective of how long you're gonna be at this. Be like an ant, don't be a fly. Definitely, don't quit early on, launch immediately, and start on the marketing.



Patrick Shanahan: You have no idea what you'll learn along the way that'll drastically change your style. You're never gonna have your craft completely mastered. None of us ever do, just get going, get started, right?



Nick Friend: Oh, yeah, here's another good one. When you're just starting out, you're going to be the worst.



Patrick Shanahan: You're going to get the worst performance that you will ever get in the entirety of your business, when you're just starting out, okay? And that goes with you guys that are literally just starting out, you've never sold art before, and those of you who maybe were selling offline and you're coming online for the first time.



Nick Friend: Your results are gonna be terrible, okay? Like just get that in your mind. Because the process of building a business, you guys, it's what you are doing is you are optimizing towards perfection over time. That's what you're doing, okay? Every day you're getting better, you're getting more, the business is going from being very, very imperfect.



Patrick Shanahan: You don't really understand who your collectors are, who your target audience is, what subject matter you should focus on. So you have to start somewhere, but then you're trying to get step-by-step better and better and better every day. And over a long enough period of time, you get closer and closer towards perfection.



Nick Friend: And what happens is your results get better and better and better.



Patrick Shanahan: Yup, it gets easier, especially when you're on your own attention.



Nick Friend: That's for sure.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah.



Nick Friend: All right.



Patrick Shanahan: All right. More to come on this one.



Nick Friend: I was fired up on this one. Got me all fired up.



Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, I mean, this thing just kinda went in all sorts of directions, but I dig it.



Nick Friend: All right, I'm playing the outro music, everybody thanks for watching and listening, and as always, have a great day. Thanks, Nick.



Patrick Shanahan: Thank you.









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