Rising Tide of Success: A Live Q&A with Jonah Allen, the Young $100K+ Photographer

An in-depth interview with Jonah Allen, a 29-year-old photographic artist based in Northwest Florida. Jonah shares his journey from his first photography experiences at age 14 to becoming a successful gallery owner and artist. He discusses his strategies for creating and selling high-value limited editions of his work, his rigorous commitment to his art, and his unique approach to storytelling and branding. The conversation also covers how Jonah got his big break with a high-end beachfront hotel, his marketing tactics, and his disciplined work ethic. Audience questions about sales strategies, handling failures, and scaling a business provide further insights. The session highlights the importance of passion, commitment, and consistent marketing in achieving success as an artist.

Podcast Transcribe

Jonah Allen: [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] Guys, so what are we thinking today? About to check the forecast, but I'm pretty sure it's flat. We got North winds and good water clarity, so we'll see where that leads us. You never know with the ocean; it's different every day [Applause]. My name is Jonah Allen, and I'm a photographic artist [Music] [Applause] [Music]. Dead low tide is right now, so that could be really interesting. It's gonna be first light soon, so let's get out there [Music]. There's literally a five-minute window right when the sun rises to the east, like when that light kisses the sand. It has to be really soft because after five minutes it gets too harsh, and then the difference between the highlights and the shadows is like too stark. I don't really get in the water when the waves are a little bit bigger, but the water clarity is so pretty that I'm just gonna get out there and see what we can find [Music]. I picked up a camera when I was probably 14 or so, and I just never put it down. Right now, most of my work—I'd say 95 percent of it—is made here in Northwest Florida off of 30A, the beaches. There's water around to be explored, but my favorite is where we're sitting right now. These are called Coastal Dune Lakes. Biologically, they are very rare in their occurrence, so they're just these incredible, really biodiverse ecosystems. This outfall or this outflow, they change every day, and they change on an hourly basis. You could come back here tomorrow, it could be closed, or it could look entirely different. And so I love how dynamic they are because they always keep me coming back. It's a photographer's dream [Music]. The first time I saw Jonah's work was at Digital Graffiti at Alys Beach, and it's pretty extraordinary to see art projected on a massive white canvas to begin with. But especially when he was utilizing drone technology and his unique artistic editing skills, and they ended up walking away with accolades not just from passers-by, but from the judges who ultimately recognized his work as one of the best in the competition. I have three main series of works, which are waterworks of waves, aerial photographs shot from a helicopter, and lastly abstract sand patterns shot from the sand. Sand is something really interesting to me because it's a medium that leaves a visual trace of what's come before you. So, like, every time you look at the sand, you can almost see a little bit into the past because you can see the imprints from the night before, or the tide, the wind. You can see people's footprints. For some reason, I'm so drawn to the organic shapes they have, like these fractal-like patterns. They can be seen at different scales. On one level, you can see them a couple of feet above, but they start to repeat themselves when you go really high up in the air. So, the drones are really easy and great for low-altitude precision, but I personally love to charter helicopters, get up there, take the doors off where you're exposed to the elements, exposed to the wind, and you're really going to see how small and insignificant you are as a human [Music]. But the peak of my entire existence is at sea level. The gulf, the ocean, the waves, there's me, the pinnacle of Mother Nature's beauty and power. So, immersing myself is the best way for me to harness that energy. I meet a lot of people publishing V magazine, but Jonah stopped me in my tracks. He is redefining the medium of beach photography. There's so many moods when you look at his art. It's not static. You can actually look at it and see the movement, the calmness, the vibrancy, and the color. So, there's a sense of anticipation watching that wave getting ready to roll over. We all know what's coming, but we rarely get to stop the camera in a way that allows us to pause and think about the sights, the smells that go along with such a moment. The best thing about this community is that it's very supportive for art and creative lifestyles, so it's allowed me to follow my passion on every level. Surfing is always my first priority. If our favorite spot is breaking, then the camera is not coming with me. I'm surfing 100 percent. My favorite spot is a place here on the Gulf Coast. I don't like to say the name because it's a special spot. You know, it's not secret anymore, but there are days where I can surf there alone, and I like to keep it that way. That's the goal, just to keep creating and to keep surfing and to live an inspired, intentional lifestyle. So, the next step of my career is opening my own studio, and I'm really excited to share my work in such a tangible way. Hey guys, thank you guys so much for coming. I really appreciate it, and yet it's still just the beginning of my journey, which is exactly why I chose this path. First and foremost, it's the willingness to show up, the determination, and I just haven't given up. I think what really makes Jonah unique is that he's passionate. He's passionate about our communities, passionate about the subject matter. He's taking us into the moment, not to the place as much as the moment. He's young, he's intentional, he's focused, and he is so darn good [Music]. Yeah, if you just do what you love, everything else will fall into place [Music] [Music]. Thank you [Music] [Music].

Patrick Shanahan: Morning, sunshine.

Jonah Allen: Morning, guys. So, what are we thinking today? Check the forecast, but I'm pretty sure it's flat. We got North winds and good water clarity, so we'll see where that leads us. You never know.

Patrick Shanahan: All right, well, great intro video there, Jonah. That got me even a little bit fired up. Andrea, will you let people in? As I get things teed up, I made you a co-host. If you could help me with that, that would be wonderful. Well, welcome everybody. Fired up to have you for this interview of Jonah. I want to get into the agenda right at the top, so you know where we're going to go in this whole thing. The game plan is to interview Jonah a little bit. Awesome, kind of some pointed questions and go into some detail on some things. And then after that, we'll go right into Q&A where you guys can ask Jonah any questions that you might have. He's got really just an incredible story as we'll get into in a second. And then, yeah, then we'll do the Q&A. So, I'm excited about that. And then, you know, I'm excited about this being a new concept for us at Art Storefronts, right? Like, you know, we're a pretty heavy content marketing agency, and we get a ton of social media comments. And a recurring theme in the comments is always like, "Yeah, okay, well, you know, show me what artists you've made so incredibly successful. Like, where are the artists that are so successful?" And I hate that premise, right? Because the premise implies that somehow you sign up for some service and magically you have a huge art business and you're massively successful. If you ever hear anyone promising that, it's snake oil. Run in the other direction. You know, no service does that, right? And it underlies something that causes so many artists and photographers to fail, which is like there's some sort of shortcut in this business to get where you are and to get where you can be successful, right? And, you know, at Art Storefronts, we're a business that we try to do everything that we can through our software, our education, our coaching, our support, our encouragement to help artists succeed, to give them every advantage we can to help them succeed, to try and be, you know, the Yoda to the Luke Skywalker, a coach to an athlete, a parent to a son, right? Like, who that person becomes, how successful that artist becomes is completely up to them. It's their talents, their hard work, their determination, their creativity. And we feel we've succeeded as a business if we somehow help in that process in the slightest and get them going a little bit quicker in the direction of what they determine to be success to their business. And you know, what I realize though is, you know, in starting this new series in which, you know, we're going to pull in some of the most successful customers that we have that are really, really growing incredible businesses because I realize like, you know, it's an amazing accomplishment to have a few of these artists and photographers as customers that are potentially in the top one percent of artists and photographers that are in the working world today. And the fact that Jonah got there as a 29-year-old is, you know, it's staggering. There's, you know, I what I believe to be a ton that we can learn from Jonah. And, you know, again, the fact that he's achieved that at such a young age. And so the goal of this new series, both with Jonah today and then the artists and photographers that we're going to bring in in the future, is really try to unpack some of the secrets of their success, find out how they've been able to achieve what they've been able to achieve, and then to have you guys leave with something that you can implement in your business. But, you know, I'm also super excited to offer up stories, you know, like Jonah's to show what's truly possible, to show what's truly able to be achieved as an artist or photographer. And it's so much better to hear it out of their mouths, you know, rather rather than from us, the company. And, you know, I'm like hugely aware of like how hard this business is to make it, right? Like, you know, it's really, really difficult to get going in this business and hope goes a long way, right? Like you guys are all solopreneurs dealing with the ups and downs of the constant marketing and trying to make it in this business. And so I think my hope is that, you know, hearing from Jonah, how he's done it, how hard he's worked, what's worked for him, and then your questions will will leave everybody with with hope after the fact. So I'm really excited about this series. And you guys will get emails. You'll see us on Instagram. We'll be talking about all the ones coming up. So that's a game plan. On that note, let me introduce Jonah as a final. We're recording this session. It's streaming. We're going to send it to everybody that that signed up for this. So for some reason, you have to go. I totally understand that. All good. We'll send everybody a copy after the fact as well as any links that we end up bringing out or talking about or anything that Jonah throws out there and all of that. So on that note, Jonah, you ready to roll?

Jonah Allen: Let's rock and roll. I'm stoked to be here.

Patrick Shanahan: Awesome. Awesome. Now, I played your intro video up front because I thought that was cool, and I wanted everyone to see it. But let's assume that no one saw it because we had so many people that joined late. So I figure I want to start with sort of the origin story, you know, and I want I know you pretty well, but there's a ton I don't know either. So I'm going to ask some pointed questions. I'm going to do my best Barbara Walters impersonation, try to hit you with some with some curveballs that you didn't see coming. I want to I want to touch particularly on some of the things that I think that you do well, just intuitively and how you figured that out, what that happened. I want to talk about how you got into that hotel and that process, because that is like a massive dream for everyone. Then I want to talk about, you know, the the I don't I don't want to say it bad, ballsy decision to at your age commit to a brand new retail facility where you did in that town, which is crazy. And then the one before it, because I think those are important steps too. So that's the ball game throughout this session. You guys feel free to avail yourselves of the chat, both to throw questions in that we might deal with in real time. I want to make this laid back, fun, interactive, like we usually do them so Jonah can answer those directly. And then, like I said, we'll we'll go about two hours, try to do some interviews, see where it goes, and then into the Q&A, and you guys ask questions to Jonah directly. So start with the origin story. Where'd you grow up? Were there artists in the family? When did you pick up the camera? You know, all that kind of stuff.

Jonah Allen: Yeah, it's funny. I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia. You know, my work is based on the water, so no artists in the family. However, family loved music, and music was a huge part of life. Going to concerts. My first memory is like my dad taking me to concerts, and that kind of exposed me to just like the alternate lifestyle. I knew from a very young age I had this deep-rooted belief and then knowing that I was not going to live a standard lifestyle. I had a deep belief that I was going to live, you know, an alternate lifestyle. And when I was about 12 years old, I was down here in Florida where I'm at now, vacation with my family. And nobody in my family surfed, but for some reason, my parents bought me a surf lesson, and I caught my first wave, and that wave changed my life. It completely changed the trajectory of everything because I got hooked on surfing. I mean, when I say hooked, I mean absolutely full-on addicted, just obsessed with surfing. And about two years later, a friend of mine was given an underwater camera for his birthday. I was probably 14 years old, and he didn't really take interest to it. And so I kind of borrowed it because he wasn't really into it, and I haven't put it down since. I'm 29, so I'm really bad at math, so I can't tell you the difference. But I've had a camera by my side for for that many years. And then, so I was making images all throughout high school, and I was living in Atlanta. I went to University of Georgia. I studied marketing, and I minored in art. I can't tell you a single thing I learned from the marketing department at University of Georgia. Not a thing. Don't remember anything. However, I learned a lot in the art school, and I also learned a lot about marketing, marketing events, marketing myself inside a band. And I love music. I worked at a recording studio, and I thought I was going to be a musician. And so I learned a lot about how to work with a team and how to just have an idea and kind of manifest it into reality working with this band. And after that, I traveled for about a year around the world chasing waves. And then I moved down to Florida completely broke. I mean, I had no money, like literally nothing. Like I spent every last penny chasing waves around the world.

Patrick Shanahan: 22, 23, 24.

Jonah Allen: Yeah. And literally no money. I worked at a local coffee shop, and I was like, you know, I was already making images for a long time, and I was making images not as a typical photographer. Most time, no photography is a service-based job and making images for a client, you know, weddings, interiors, portraits. I had no interest in that. I was just making images of the ocean for me, for myself. And I tried to sell them repeatedly throughout college, art markets, a ton of failure, a ton of rejection. I mean, so much failure, so much rejection. And when I moved down to Florida, I made a commitment that, you know, I'm going to give it a go at art. I'm going to—this is the path. I just saw an opportunity in this area reason, one reason alone why you have such a successful large business, what would it be?

Jonah Allen: I'm gonna give you two reasons, actually. One's gonna be internal, one's gonna be external. Internally, under my control, I think—and this would be the number one answer if I said one answer—it'd be this one. But it would be a commitment. I made a commitment when I started in 2018. Like when I say started in 2018, I was already making images for 10 years, but really started trying to sell my art in 2018 full-time. I made a commitment that I'm gonna give this my best go. I'm not gonna have a fallback. There's gonna be nothing to fall back on. And this is going to be my career. And I made that commitment. And I think that's really the first step to be successful at anything. You really have to commit. So I made a commitment to not really give up, just to go until eternity, really.

The second one is, I would say literally like out of my control, just luck. Like location. Like being here in the midst of a blooming, new developing town.

Patrick Shanahan: It's never dumb luck, though. It's always driven by ambition and putting in the work. You know, as I was thinking about it, I was like writing the notes. Do you know what I think the one thing that I would pick as your success as an outside observer—notwithstanding the work ethic, which is there, and we're just going to assume that's an automatic—is getting to know you and seeing everything that I've seen. The lifestyle that you live right now, if you were not an artist, would be the absolute thing. You want to be in the ocean, at the ocean, on the beach, surfing 100 percent of the day, every single solitary day. And for me, you somehow managed to make your number one passion in life also what you photograph for art. And I think when you can line those things up, boy, I mean, game changer. Absolute game changer.

So getting started, that's my outside observation. I could show you videos of, you know, Jonah surfing and doing everything else. There's a number of things, too, in addition to the one thing that I think that you've had a natural knack and an instinct for that I would say most people that don't, especially not out of the gates. And the first one is that Jonah, once you drill into his social media—and I highly recommend that you guys follow him on social media and get his handle and throw it in the chat—Jonah usually doesn't just take an image. There's always a story. There's always a story that he pairs with the images. And I think he does that way more than most photographers do. And I think it totally drills into the level of success that he's had, too. I would love to get your two cents on how you approach story and storytelling to set up the narrative of your images, where they come from, why they're important, why they're important to you.

Jonah Allen: Yeah, I mean, I really think at the end of the day, people buy art because they feel that connection, and it's an emotional decision. It's not a logical one. And so if you can build that emotional connection organically and authentically, then that's the best way to do it. So there's no better way to do that than by being in the gallery in person, by talking to somebody, telling them a story. But the next best thing is using the internet, video content, photo content to share that narrative, share that story. So to bridge the gap between that emotional connection, just to bring somebody in.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, you might just even do that natively and intuitively and not even know that you're doing it. But you would be surprised how many people just present images, and they don't have a story to go with it. Right? Like, you know, Jonah takes the time, like you saw in his little intro video, to truly understand the geographic, the geology, the biological situations that are going on that allow him to create the images that he does. And that story leans very heavily into what he does, which I think is very interesting, especially for photographers.

The next thing I want you to talk on is how you approach your branding. Okay? And we're going to get into some of this a little bit later. You know, Jonah getting into the hotel and, you know, the fact that he is in a high-end town. You can see the image behind him. He's in his gallery. You can see the way that the work looks in there. But you're very intentional about how you present your work on your social media sites, about how it ends up and looks on the walls of your customers. And I want to hear your approach to that.

Jonah Allen: So when I first started, I had this belief. I'm not sure where I got it from. I just saw the vision of, I saw an opportunity. And I really wanted to price my work—and I mean, it's everything's, you know, perspective—but at that time, I wanted to price my work high. And in order to have the—what's the word I'm looking for—just in order to price the work high, in order for someone to see the value in it, there has to be more than just the image. There has to be more beneath the surface. There has to be story, there has to be a lot of support for that value. So my approach to, I guess, branding, you know, personal branding is just really showcasing mostly only large-scale work, priced high, and in my dream clients' homes. You know, really just trying to attract my dream client by just showcasing what I think my dream client, what their home would look like, and what the art would look like in their home. Only putting out that kind of content of like high caliber, of high quality, so that way I'm attracting that dream client, that avatar.

Patrick Shanahan: And it's been really interesting to observe that, right? Because, you know, all day long, what am I doing? I'm telling people, like, look, increase the content production, right? It doesn't matter what it looks like. I need all of you guys doing more of it to get there, you know. And I stand by that opinion. That's important. I mean, how many times have I harassed you recently about not posting enough on social? Plenty, right? But Jonah has taken a different tact in the sense that he does not let it out the front door unless it matches his brand guidelines and his archetype and what he wants his work to look like. And your situation, again, is unique because right now you have an utter, total, and complete geographic business for people that love vacationing in a spot that is very high-end with very high-end real estate that is booming, right? And so I think that brand is really, really important.

Now, you should get into pricing, I think, and maybe talk about the range of what your lineup looks like.

Jonah Allen: Yeah, so right now, I mean, this is—I'm in my gallery right now, and the average price is $11,000. I have a couple small—I have like a little retail table area where there's my books and acrylic blocks.

Patrick Shanahan: What do you have in the zero to 100 range?

Jonah Allen: Acrylic blocks, stationery, my book, and I have some small pieces of art. But really, everything else in the gallery kind of starts at about $5,000 and goes to like $16,000, $18,000, $20,000. But I'd say my average sale is about $11,000. Actually, I couldn't tell you. If I just looked at the average sale for the last four months, I bet it'd be higher. I bet it'd be closer to $15,000.

Patrick Shanahan: What did you start out as, like 18, 19, 20? Do you remember?

Jonah Allen: Oh, I mean, I was pricing my work. I remember I'll never forget it. I remember I sent an invoice, my first big invoice for $6,000. It was like for six pieces, and I was so terrified. I was so scared. I remember when I sent the invoice, that night I had trouble sleeping. I was like, oh my God, it's so much money. It's so much money because I had the belief, right? And it all comes back to belief. I had to believe that that was a lot of money. And I didn't have the belief in my own value of my own work. You know, I think like for me, the foundation of everything is belief, right? Our beliefs, you know, make our thoughts, which create our actions, and create our habits. Our habits create our reality, which, you know, determines our destiny. And so like belief is the foundation for everything. So, you know, I guess understanding what your limiting beliefs are, what my limiting beliefs were, and kind of trying to shatter those, peel back the onion one layer at a time. And I still have many beliefs right now. You know, it's like I have a—like, you know, so I talk about, I know I'm going to get off track here, but like belief is like the foundation for everything for me. So tying this back to what we were talking about, brand and pricing, when I started out, I had the belief that I wanted to price my work high because that's what I just saw. I just saw it'd be so much easier to build a business if the work is priced high because you have so much more margin to work with. You know, it's just so much easier. But I mean, there's way more friction. You have to build the value behind it, you know, through branding.

Patrick Shanahan: Do you call them Originals? Do you call them limited editions? Do you call them open editions?

Jonah Allen: Yeah, so everything I do is a limited edition of 12. I chose the—you know, honestly, it could be anything, right? 12 is an arbitrary number. But for me, I chose the number 12 because 50 to me or 36 or whatever, that just feels like too much. Like I feel like that value, like someone could come in here and be like 36, like that's a lot. Like where's the value, you know? But 12 to me, it's just an arbitrary number. It's like it has just enough to where I can make an image one time, right? Do the work once and have the scalability of being able to print it 12 times and make a sale 12 times without having to do the work of creating the work from the art standpoint. So I just chose 12 because it felt like a good number and I stuck to it.

Patrick Shanahan: It's interesting to think too, like you have a finite amount of houses in Alys Beach, a finite amount of houses that are going to be built there, right? But everyone has their home piece too. And so if I walk into every cocktail party in Alys Beach and see the same Jonah Allen images on the wall, it's gonna be like, okay, you know, there's not any scarcity here, which I think is really, really interesting.

Okay, so we talked about the branding. You know, I want to talk about how hard you work, but we should probably get that into that in the context of a gallery because Jonah's going to tell you right now he's loving this life working seven days a week with a retail store that never closes. Okay? But I think, you know, this would be a good opportunity to—and again, at a high level—Jonah's grinding, niche, timing, mindset, right? One of the rare ones that has a super-defined niche, by the way, which is interesting that has the level of success that you do because we have so many customers that have so many different styles and all over the place. The fact that you're selling paradise is amazing, right? Because everyone feels like they're on vacation when they're there, and I think that's a huge, huge thing. We covered the storytelling. I want to hear the breakdown of how you got into the hotel. And you know what I thought we would do is I will, because I had the video teed up, I want everyone to see it while you're talking, and I'll just mute it, and then you can kind of do it if that works for you. All right, hold on.

Jonah Allen: Yeah.

Patrick Shanahan: What did you call this thing? What it's like instead, okay, so it's the Al...

Jonah Allen: Yeah, it's the Alys Beach Club. The Beach Club is exclusive to the homeowners of this new urbanist town, which is called Alys Beach. It's like basically a planned development. I mean, it's incredible. I mean, the average home price there is probably, I don't know, four million, five million or so. And actually, what's crazy is I didn't do any outbound marketing. I got a phone call. I got a phone call from the architecture firm who designed this building, and I was in disbelief. I actually had to put the phone call on mute for a second because she immediately called me, and I went into kind of like almost like sales mode because I thought like, oh, I'm an option for this. Like she's talking to other artists. Like I'm an option. And then she's like, I went into kind of like sales mode or just kind of trying to pitch myself and my story, and she was like, no, no, Jonah, I don't think you understand. We've already selected 15 pieces. And so she told me that, and I had to put the phone on mute. I had to like just let out like a sigh. I was just like, oh my gosh, like 15 pieces. Like that's all. You know, I take it off mute, and I am cool and calm and collected. So it's funny. I've tried to pinpoint who referred—so basically somebody referred me to this architecture firm whose client was Alys Beach. And I found out who it was, and I sent her a lot of flowers multiple times. But somebody referred me, and it is because they saw my work from the consistent kind of hustle over the last couple years prior to that. So that's kind of like, that's how it happened. I just—I really—it's like, luck meets those who, you know, prepare.

Patrick Shanahan: You can imagine my surprise at hearing this, right? How do I get into interior designers, right? How do I find the hotels? How do I find the high-net-worth individuals? You don't. They find you. They find you. And you know how they find you? Regular and consistent marketing. Every time I hear a story of someone getting the huge interior design order or getting into a hotel or any of the rest of the things, they always find you, which, you know, which is just a crazy, crazy thing to talk about.

Let's pivot to the galleries. I want to talk about—tell them what you did step one, kind of small. It's much smaller than my last warehouse. My other warehouse had 1500 square feet. So I have some movable walls on casters, but I have one that's this way. It's inverse. One wall of continuous work, big work, and then I kind of have this movable wall, two walls together, and then a little couch seating area, and then some more work here, a little book pedestal right here, and then my little desk and a little retail area here.

Patrick Shanahan: Nice.

Jonah Allen: So yeah, it was definitely a risky move. Very risky. It's very expensive for me, for an artist, right? The rent here is, I mean, yeah, it's, for me, it's expensive.

Patrick Shanahan: And you should say, what are the demands on how many days a week that business is open?

Jonah Allen: Yes, I'm required by the landlord to be open seven days a week.

Patrick Shanahan: Seven days a week. Lest you think young Jonah is successful not from grinding it out. Now he wants to pull his hair out. And by the way, we should tell everyone, just so no one else throws it out, what do you often refer to in Facebook and Instagram ads when we posted stuff? They call him saltwater Jesus. Let me tell you, with the seven days a week job right now, saltwater Jesus is not as happy as he has been in years previous. So you're grinding like crazy, which is amazing.

So, you know, and somebody threw it in the chat like, you know, you're sort of following Weiland's business model, which is interesting too. It was a huge risk for you to sign that first lease even, you know, a ton of money out of pocket. And now this one, because it's Main Street, like the rules are even more difficult. And I think, you know, the interesting thing—and our customers will appreciate this—how long have I been harassing you to take care of the hundred dollars and cheaper portion of the lineup in the merchandise in there?

Jonah Allen: Long time.

Patrick Shanahan: Long time. All right. And what has he done now? He's got it in order. And what's so interesting is the combination of his photo book and his greeting cards. I still want him to do stickers. Now the foot traffic is starting to come because you're lighting up at the summer destination. Like, how many books have you sold since the gallery opened? Just throw that out there because I drill into everyone's head non-wall art is a part of the lineup. Not everyone's ready to buy wall art all the time, and you have to have something that they can purchase and reward your creativity with, right?

Jonah Allen: Yeah, let me just say for all artists, publishing a book—while it's a lot of work—but it has been incredible to have the cash flow from the book. I pre-sold them for like seven months before they were actually here, and the pre-sale, I mean, I did probably 80 grand from the pre-sale, which was more than paid for the cost of the books.

Patrick Shanahan: And you should say, what size is your list?

Jonah Allen: It's not very big. It's, say, 9,000 people.

Patrick Shanahan: Yep. And you have roughly the same on Instagram, which is, you know, which is crazy. Like, one of the things that I'm blown away by is, especially with the few that are as successful as you, is it everybody has a different path and does things a little bit differently. There's like no thing that's like 100 percent consistent. You know, like we have customers that are at your level that have 350,000 followers on Instagram, and then you've got Jonah here, you know, with 9,000. Like, it's not a huge part of his business, which is why I keep harassing him to increase his content production because I believe it can be, right? And it's still a really, really potential important part.

Jonah Allen: What's crazy is the number one attribution, marketing attribution from the book sales, is Instagram.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah. Hear that? Why Instagram is the most important profile to be marketing your work on, right? And why having a sub-$100 price point. But you did really well with calendars too, right?

Jonah Allen: Yeah, the first year, I made like $10,000 in calendars, maybe.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, which is crazy for a first run. So you're, I think you're proving out the merged portion of things quite a bit and quite a bit recently. Heck of a journey so far. Insane that you are where you are at 29. Still have a ton of work to do. Excited to see where your career is gonna go. Not excited to pay the fresh orchid bill in your gallery because it looks like you probably have to replace those quite often. But that aside, I think, you know, unless you have anything else you want to rant on, I think we open it up to questions.

Jonah Allen: Yeah, well, I think—I mean, I already kind of touched on it—but I think one of the most helpful things for anybody, no matter what you're doing, is really like sitting with yourself and just really questioning—man, I forget the exact phrase, but I can't remember what it is. It's about beliefs, but it's like basically like we don't think to question our deep beliefs. And I would just encourage all the artists here to really sit down with yourself for a bit, take some time, think about it for like a week, but really kind of write out what your beliefs about your art business are, about your own art, about yourself, and start to compile a list of core beliefs. And then, you know, a week later, see what beliefs you want to keep, which ones are serving you, which ones are not serving you. Because like beliefs are really the foundation for everything. But yeah, I think that that's like for me, like that has been really helpful.

Another thing too, there's a book that has had a really profound impact on me, which is, the concept of the book is something that Patrick and Nick teach, you know, and everybody in Art Storefronts team teaches every day. And the book is called "The Slight Edge" by Jeff Olson. And the concept is every day we make decisions, right? And our decisions compound over time. They're going to compound either positively or they're going to compound negatively. And this is in all areas of our life—our health, our relationships, our finances, our careers, our personal development, our spirituality, our faith. If you want to have exponential results, which only five percent of the population has, you know, quote-unquote success, then you have to make simple daily disciplines that are easy to do, but they're also easy not to do. Right? Making those simple, simple daily disciplines, they compound over time. And that for me has been a really profound book. It's what's led to this, you know, this kind of growth. So I definitely think I'll put it in the chat here. It's called "The Slight Edge" by Jeff Olson. Definitely everyone should read that book because if you live "The Slight Edge," then your life is going to get much better.

And the other thing about that is defining what success looks like for you, like having an end goal and working backwards. If you don't know, for me at least, if you don't know where you're going, if you don't have a heading, then you don't know which way to sail every day or every minute or every hour, every week. You're just kind of meandering. So I don't know about you, but I don't want to meander. So it's really important to have a heading to stay a course.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, and if you know what, we might as well just peel that onion back a little bit because I know you well enough. How many hours a night do you sleep? That's

absolutely love learning. I spend, you know, I'm making a nice living, but I reinvest. My number one investment that I make with that money is an investment back into myself with skills, right? Increasing my earning capacity by just developing my skills. Sales has been the number one skill, you know, to learn and really investing time and energy into sales. But also, you know, I have coaches in all areas of my life. Like I said, I mean, relationships, I have relationship therapists, I have my own therapist, I have a personal trainer. I mean, surrounding yourself with people who are ahead of you to coach you to where you want to go, I mean, you can learn by failure or you can fast-track by getting help.

Patrick Shanahan: So I'm curious about the sales. Drill into the sales because you're not just talking about the mechanics, you're talking about all of them from soup to nuts, right?

Jonah Allen: Yeah, talk about the process, the sales process, like getting educated on how to actually sell, right? The sales process, the steps that are involved in the sale, overcoming obstacles, overcoming objections because art is not an easy sell. It's a very high friction process, right? You have all these obstacles. You've got the subject matter, you've got the color, you've got the frame, you've got the—you know, then you've got objections. You've got the spouse, you need to think about it, you've got the price, the value objection. You know, there's so many things that can derail a sale. So really understanding the sales process and getting much better at sales and really overcoming objections.

Patrick Shanahan: Another interesting thing is in terms of the stuff that you sell out of your gallery and all your big pieces, what percentage of those do you go to the customer's house and hang yourself?

Jonah Allen: If it's being shipped somewhere, then I don't, obviously. But if it's local, it's out of town, then 100 percent.

Patrick Shanahan: For two reasons.

Jonah Allen: For two reasons. My story, I couldn't use a drill. My first installation, I didn't know how to use the drill. I hired an installer, he did it, and he taught me. And he's the same guy that's with me today that helps me with metal installations. But I started out not as a handyman. I'm not a handyman. I don't know how to do mechanical stuff. But there's two reasons why I do the installations. First and foremost, it's the relationship. You know, when someone buys my art, collects my art, you know, I value that person. I'm so grateful because they're supporting me, and I want to build that relationship with them. I want to have that relationship with them for life. And then the second thing is like nine, you know, eight times out of ten, I go to somebody's house, I reveal it, put it up, they're just so stoked, so excited, so grateful. You know, then they're like, "Oh, well, let me show you this. Do you have a little bit? Can I show you my—I have this bedroom space, but it's like you want to see it?" "Oh yeah, let's take me there. Let's check it out," you know? So it often leads to another sale.

Patrick Shanahan: Fantastic, fantastic way for repeat business. I mean, again, it's, you know, everyone has their own different set of circumstances. Yours, a large propensity of the art stays in the hometown, which is not a 45-minute drive. I mean, how long does it take to get from one end of the town to another, like 20 minutes, right?

Jonah Allen: Yeah, 30 minutes.

Patrick Shanahan: 30 minutes, yeah. So it's something you can do. Well, I like it. We touched on a little bit of the tactical, a little bit of the backstory. We got into a little bit of the, you know, the mindset and health. This is sort of an interesting interview. I hope you guys got value out of it. Let's jump right into the questions.

For those that are uninitiated, not Art Storefronts customers, don't know how we do this. Normally, what we like to do is if you look at the bottom of your Zoom window, there is a little reactions face. And if you click that thing, there is a way for you to raise your hand digitally speaking, and that'll form a queue. And we'll go right into the questions. And Jonah, I want to be super sensitive on your time. I know you've spent the entire day on your feet in the gallery, so, you know, we'll try to keep it nice and snappy. And first up is Courtney. Courtney, go ahead.

Courtney:Thank you guys so much for doing this. A couple of quick questions. Do you run sales? Because I know Art Storefronts has us do many per year, and just curious what you did.

Jonah Allen: Well, firstly, I know this might sound weird, but can I see you? I like to see people on Zoom. So I'd love to be able to see you, to see who I'm talking with.

Courtney:Sure.

Jonah Allen: Yes. So hey, there we go. How's it going? I love to see people. So yes, I do sales. I will say Art Storefronts—I think sales are so, so, so important. The way in which I run sales is a little bit different sometimes. What I have been doing is, for something that's actually worked out really well for me, has been, you know, when the holidays come around, doing what I call "Make Me an Offer Day," where I say, "Hey, client, take collectors, you know, hey, today is Make Me an Offer Day. It's one day only or two days only," you know, giving, you know, scarcity and urgency and encouraging them to reach out to me to make me an offer. Because what I have found for me, the number one, you know, the best thing I can do is to have a one-on-one conversation with a prospect or somebody. So if I can encourage one-on-one conversation any way I can, like, that's my goal. And so that kind of tactic or method has been working really well for me.

Courtney:So is it like to say, "Here's all of my images, let me know which one and what your offer is," or is it like on select images?

Jonah Allen: No, I kind of leave it open to them to say, "Hey, you know, whatever piece you're interested in, make me an offer on it." But no, I've definitely done all the sales. I've done all the playbooks that have been super important. You know, I just, when I moved from my gallery to my new warehouse build value behind the work and I kind of remove the discount off the table so they're not even thinking about it. And so what that looks like is saying something like, "Hey, first thing, I just want you to know that over the last seven years, you're seeing 20 pieces in the gallery right now, and I spent the last seven years making over a million photographs, and you're only seeing 20 here. I put a lot of time and energy into my work, and so, as probably a business owner yourself or someone who puts a lot of time and energy into what you do, I really want you to see the value in what I do. And honestly, if you don't see the value of my work and you can't hang this work with honor in your home for this price, then maybe the work's not for you." And I leave it like that. That's one way I can kind of shift the energy to take the discount off the table. But there are times where I do discount and, you know, it's—I hate to use the word discount, but it's a tool, right? It's a tool to get the sale over the edge. I will do whatever I can to—if I believe that this artwork is going to help this client, if I think that's a good alignment, a good fit, I will do whatever I can to make sure that this person collects the work. If it's a good fit. If it's not a good fit, then I won't. But also, I'll use whatever tools I have. And so I think that's where learning the sales process, learning how to overcome objections becomes like super, super important. And it's totally situational. Every single situation is different.

Courtney:Always situational. Yeah. Thanks for the question, Courtney. Andrea, you're up next.

Andrea:Oh, that was quick. Okay, I'll share. Hello, thank you so much for this. Wow. I'm gonna be emotional because this has been really cool.

Jonah Allen: I love that.

Andrea: Yeah, it's so inspiring. Thank you for sharing. This has been a hard year for me, and it's just really encouraging to see where you can go and having the support of Art Storefronts to show us that means so much. So thank you.

Jonah Allen: Oh my gosh.

Andrea:So my question is, going back to your beginning, when you came and you didn't have any money because you just spent it all surfing, what would you say is the most important thing to focus on when you're kind of tapped on all levels?

Jonah Allen: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, as an artist, you know, running a business, you have to do so many things, right? You're wearing all these different hats. We have our personal hats that we have to wear as well in our personal life. So we have a lot of hats to juggle. So I can totally understand where you're coming from. And I can't say what to do for you, but I can tell you what worked for me. And that's kind of like where I'm at. Like anything I say, take it with a grain of salt because it may not work for you, but this is what worked for me. So I'm not telling you what you should do. I'm telling you what worked for me. What worked for me was making high quality—I hate to use the word, but content, you know, because my art, the photos became the content. This is before, you know, video was really on Instagram, and Instagram was just a photo content platform. Really just putting your best content out there organically and at a high volume, as you know, I say that was the number one thing that helped me. What's crazy, as Patrick mentioned, I only have like eight thousand or nine thousand followers on Instagram. I don't have a big following, but it's a very loyal following that does purchase. So I'd say really invest time and energy into making the best work you can and making the best content about that work that you can. I'd say, yeah, that was probably the first step. And then also, not just making that, but executing on all the marketing tasks that Art Storefronts lays out for you. I mean, they have a calendar. I mean, literally just following that calendar. Like you follow that calendar for one year, like you're gonna see results. Like if you do everything on the calendar, you're gonna see results for sure.

Andrea:Okay, that's great. Thank you.

Patrick Shanahan: Thanks, Andrea. That was sweet. Joshua, you're up next.

Joshua: Hey Jonah, yeah, super inspiring story, man. I'm 40, and I wish I was 29 now. But yeah, so I definitely have an archive of work. I spent years, like I spent trips to Tibet, I spent years in China and stuff like that. And like, what would be your tip? You mentioned the podcast. I keep forgetting I need to go listen to that podcast. With the marketing side of things, like one of the things I'm thinking of doing is doing a photo book for my trips to Tibet and trying to market that as something like tangible that I could like just show in my hand for people and stuff like that.

Jonah Allen: Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think the book idea is a really great product to have as an artist because it's a lower ticket item that a lot of people can buy, especially online. And so for me, what I did was, I mean, this is the reason why my work I've been able to have some financial success is because the subject matter of what I create, people have an emotional connection to the subject matter. And so I make the work for myself, but I believe that I would not be able to have the success I have if the subject matter did not resonate with the people. So the book I made, the subject matter resonated with people. And so, you know, really, I think it's all about finding your dream avatar, you know, the people who are going to love this work, you know, find your dream avatar of people who are going to love this type of subject matter and get the book or get the idea in front of them as much as possible through marketing online or in person. And that goes for, you know, And that goes for, you know, for art too, is like just getting your work in front of people, in front of your dream avatar and understanding who that person is.

Joshua:Great advice.

Patrick Shanahan: Okay, John Adder, you're up next. Go ahead.

John: Thanks, Jonah. That was very informative. When you were talking about sizes, you print 12, you said, prints, correct? Now, what are those? Are they one size? Do you print what most of my works are like, my most common size, I'd say, is 72 by 48 inches, plus a frame.

Jonah Allen: So 72 by 48?

John:Right. And then you have the frame on top of it?

Jonah Allen: Yeah.

John:Do you have smaller sizes? Like, say, I come in and I see this beautiful thing, but I don't have a place where I can put one that size. Do you come down to a 20 by 30 or something like that? Can you print it? Is that—you count that as part of the edition, or is that a new edition?

Jonah Allen: Great question. I do any size within the 12. So I do mostly made to order. I won't make all 12 in advance. I only make one at a time. And each subsequent edition is usually a custom size or the right size for that client. I try to make things as personal but yet as simple as possible, if that makes sense.

John: Right. And in the one gallery where the woman had—she said as we sell one, the price of the next print in that edition goes up. Do you do that, or is that her bailiwick?

Jonah Allen: That's a great question. I do. I do that. And the reason I do that is, it goes back to value and, you know, incentive. It goes to incentive. It does—I have seen that the increasing price will definitely move somebody else. So here's something really useful, a tactic that's related to this that people can use. Sometimes, instead of going for the full sale of an artwork, sometimes what I try to do is people come to the gallery. I don't have the mentality of like, I want to sell to this person. That's not my goal. My goal is to get the person to make a personal decision. Hey, yes, they're going to buy artwork. I know they're not going to buy artwork from me, right? If I can help them make that decision, then like, that's my job. And like, if they say no, they determine it's a no, then great. But if it's a yes, that's the first step. And usually what I do is I get a deposit. I get a small deposit of $500 to hold a piece, right? And then they'll decide later the rest of the decisions, right? The size, the format, you know, so on and so forth. That's something that if you guys are in conversation, you know, with the potential buyer and they give you some sort of, you know, objection or, "Oh, I don't know right now," you can say, "Hey, listen, you know, this is one of one, or this is, you know, whatever edition you're doing. This is an original piece of art. You know, I can't control if someone comes to buy this."

Patrick Shanahan: Great advice, Jonah. Thanks for that. Alright, next up is Amy. Amy, go ahead.

Amy:Hi, Jonah. Thank you so much. This has been really inspirational and informative. I'm in a different place with my art, and I just wanted to ask you, because I do mostly original paintings, and I've been thinking about reproductions and prints. Could you share your thoughts on how you approach prints versus original works and how you decide what to reproduce?

Jonah Allen: Yeah, that's a great question. So, for me, I think prints are an incredible way to scale your business and reach more people, right? Because originals, there's only one, and it's sold once, and that's it. With prints, you can have multiple editions, and you can reach more people. What I do is I choose my best work, the work that I think resonates the most with people, the work that I think has the best chance of selling well. I choose those pieces to reproduce as prints.

For original works, it's a different market. Some people really value owning an original piece of art, and that's fantastic. But prints allow you to have different price points, which is really important because not everyone can afford an original piece, but they still want to support your work and have something of yours in their home. So, having prints allows you to have a more accessible price point for a wider audience.

When deciding what to reproduce, I also look at the response from my audience. What are people gravitating towards? What are they liking and commenting on? What are they asking about? That gives me a good indication of what will do well as a print.

Amy:That's very helpful. Thank you. One more quick question: Do you ever do limited editions of your prints, and if so, how do you decide the number for each edition?

Jonah Allen: Yes, I do limited editions of my prints. I think it adds a level of exclusivity and value to the work. The number for each edition can be arbitrary, but I chose 12 as my standard number because it feels like the right balance between scarcity and availability. It's small enough to be exclusive but large enough to make it worthwhile financially.

When deciding the number for each edition, you have to consider your market and your goals. If you want to maintain a high level of exclusivity, keep the edition size small. If you're looking to reach more people and make your work more accessible, you might consider a larger edition size. But always keep in mind the balance between exclusivity and availability.

Amy:That makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much, Jonah. This has been incredibly helpful.

Jonah Allen: You're welcome, Amy. Glad I could help.

Patrick Shanahan: Great questions, Amy. Next up, we have John. John, go ahead.

John:Hey, Jonah. Thank you for doing this. My question is about your marketing strategy. You mentioned earlier that you spend a significant amount of time on marketing. Can you give us a bit more detail on what your marketing strategy looks like on a daily or weekly basis?

Jonah Allen: Absolutely. So, my marketing strategy is a mix of online and offline efforts. Online, I focus heavily on social media, particularly Instagram. I post regularly, share stories, and engage with my audience as much as possible. I also use Facebook and Instagram ads to reach a wider audience and drive traffic to my website and gallery.

Email marketing is another crucial part of my strategy. I send out regular newsletters to my email list, updating them on new work, events, sales, and any other news. Building and maintaining an email list has been incredibly valuable for me.

Offline, I focus on local marketing and community engagement. I host events at my gallery, participate in local art shows, and collaborate with other local businesses. Word of mouth is very powerful, and being active in the community helps build that.

On a daily basis, I try to spend at least a couple of hours on marketing tasks, whether that's creating content, scheduling posts, responding to comments and messages, or working on email campaigns. Consistency is key. Even if it's just a little bit each day, it all adds up over time.

John: That's very insightful. Thank you. Do you have any advice for someone just starting out with their marketing strategy?

Jonah Allen: Yes, definitely. Start small and be consistent. You don't have to do everything at once. Choose one or two platforms to focus on and get really good at those. Build your email list from day one, even if it's small. Engage with your audience, be genuine, and provide value. Share your story, your process, and your journey. People connect with authenticity. And most importantly, don't be afraid to experiment and see what works best for you. Every artist's journey is unique, and what works for one person might not work for another. Be patient and persistent.

John:Great advice. Thank you, Jonah.

Jonah Allen: You're welcome, John. Best of luck with your marketing efforts.

Patrick Shanahan: Thanks for the question, John. Let's see, next up we have Gary. Gary, go ahead.

Gary:Hey, Jonah. Thanks for sharing your story. It's very inspiring. My question is about pricing. How do you determine the price for your prints and originals, and how do you handle pricing when you first start out versus where you are now?

Jonah Allen: Great question, Gary. Pricing can be tricky, especially when you're first starting out. When I first started, I did a lot of research to see what other artists in my niche were pricing their work at. I looked at artists who were at a similar stage in their careers as well as those who were more established. This gave me a good baseline to work from.

I also considered the cost of materials, production, and my time. It's important to make sure you're covering your costs and making a profit. As I gained more experience and confidence in my work, I gradually increased my prices.

For prints, I take into account the size of the print, the edition size, and the production costs. Limited editions are priced higher because of their exclusivity. I also consider the value that my work provides to the buyer. As I've built my brand and reputation, I've been able to increase my prices accordingly.

It's important to remember that pricing is not set in stone. You can adjust your prices as you go along based on demand and feedback from your audience. Don't undervalue your work, but also be mindful of what the market can bear.

Gary:That's really helpful. Thank you. One more quick question: How do you handle price increases with your existing customers?

Jonah Allen: When I decide to increase my prices, I usually give my existing customers a heads-up. I'll send out an email to my collectors and let them know that prices will be going up on a certain date. This gives them an opportunity to purchase at the current prices before the increase. It also creates a sense of urgency, which can help drive sales.

I always explain the reason for the price increase, whether it's due to increased demand, higher production costs, or the growth of my brand. Being transparent with your customers builds trust and helps them understand the value of your work.

Gary:That makes a lot of sense. Thanks again, Jonah.

Jonah Allen: You're welcome, Gary. Happy to help.

Patrick Shanahan: Great questions, Gary. Thanks, everyone, for the fantastic questions and for participating. Jonah, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your journey with us. This has been incredibly insightful and inspiring. We wish you continued success in your career.

Jonah Allen: Thank you, Patrick. It's been a pleasure. And thank you to everyone who joined and asked questions. I'm glad I could share my experiences, and I hope it helps you on your own artistic journey.

Patrick Shanahan: Absolutely. Take care, everyone, and have a great rest of your day.