Artist Kenneth LeRose
Join us in this episode of the Art Marketing Podcast as we dive into the inspiring journey of photographer Kenneth LeRose. From his beginnings in fitness photography to mastering astrophotography while living in an Airstream, Kenneth shares his passion for teaching and creating stunning visuals. Discover his strategies for building an engaged audience on Instagram, the challenges of monetizing his art, and his recent experiences with Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales. Tune in for valuable insights on marketing, workshops, and the pursuit of passive income in the art world!
Podcast Transcribe
Kenneth LeRose: I'm wired to create, and that's what I love doing. I love teaching, so all that comes naturally for me. But when it comes to marketing and putting those types of things together, can I just not work and just take photos? Yes, you and every artist out there. Can I just create, and somebody else handles everything else? Please, I need to create some more passive income. I want to sell my work. I want to see it on people's walls. I want them to enjoy it. I want them to experience it. I want them to be emotionally connected to some of these images, for sure. Six months ago or so, I finally just did a launch where I did a free giveaway, which also included a free one-on-one workshop. That helped to generate a lot of leads, a lot of emails, and interest. Yeah, building that email list. But I followed the guide on you guys' site. It was super helpful. I just followed that guide to a tee, and then yeah, it was pretty successful.
Patrick Shanahan: You did the hard work of building an audience. The audience loves what you do. Now you have to just keep taking shots to figure out how to monetize them. In terms of price points, it's amazing when you have an audience like this on Instagram. You've got to have the price points for everyone. You need to include the art and the merch, starting from zero to a hundred. Then from a hundred to a thousand, your prints get a little bit bigger. Maybe at a thousand or even over a thousand, the workshops start, and you can also introduce courses. So you’ve got this range from zero to five thousand. Anybody who comes in, loves the work, and gets attached to it will generate a ton of interest.
Patrick Shanahan: All right, and we're live. Patrick here, back with another episode of the Art Marketing Podcast, continuing on in our customer interview series. Thrilled to have Art Storefronts customer and friend, who I just met, who might actually be one of the most interesting men in the world after we get into the story here. I'm joined today by Kenneth LeRose from his Jeep with his dog. Where are you right now, anyway?
Kenneth LeRose: Yeah, I'm actually pulling my Airstream. I'm right outside of my office, which happens to be Starbucks. That's where I get most of my work done. And there's Sabu back there. He chills in the car, and I get him a puppuccino, and he deals with it. He loves it. That's how we go.
Patrick Shanahan: I can't wait to get into your story, which is really interesting. Kenneth, just for a quick check, this out is absolutely crushing it right now on Instagram. I'll let him get into how he lives and what he's doing, but you can see the sample of his work over here above. I should say, he has some just absolutely stunning images. This one dude is just a showstopper right there. That's an Instagram scroll showstopper. The places you've been have been absolutely staggering. But give us a little bit of the origin story. How did you get into photography? How did it all get started, and where are you today?
Kenneth LeRose: Yeah, yeah. I picked up a camera about nine years ago, and seven years ago, I decided I was going to live in that little Airstream that you can see through that foggy window. Yeah, man, it was just... I picked up a camera. I started doing fitness photography because, for 15 years, I was a professional bodybuilder. I was very competitive, did that regularly, did a bunch of wacky stuff for work that I don't know if we're going to get into here, maybe we should. But yeah, then I shifted into photography. My girlfriend at the time was like, "Hey, you should take some pictures of landscapes." And I just was like, "Why would I do that? It just seems so boring, taking pictures of mountains." Because like, you grab your phone, and you see something, these big mountains, and you take a photo, and you're just like, "Oh, that doesn't represent what I'm seeing. It's so much bigger, and it feels more immense with my eyeballs." And then I took a photo in San Francisco one day of the Golden Gate Bridge, and it looked like one of those photos that these professional photographers take. And I was like, "Oh, I need to learn how to do this." And so I became obsessed with learning landscape photography, which then led me into astrophotography. And yeah, as soon as I hit the road seven years ago, I had to figure out how I was going to make an income. And I've always loved teaching, so I thought, "Hey, maybe I can teach people how to photograph things like the stars and landscapes." And so I put my feeler out, and I sold out my first workshop. And then I realized, like, "Holy crap, I have to figure out how to teach these people. They're going to feel duped when they show up because I've never done this before."
Patrick Shanahan: Classic impostor syndrome.
Kenneth LeRose: Yeah, yeah. They signed up, and I just did my best to just deliver above and beyond. And many of them are like really good friends now. Actually, I work with one of the guys who came to my first workshop. He's now like one of my best friends, and we do workshops together, which is super rad. Yeah, after that, man, I just became hooked, and I love it. So I've just been traveling over the last seven years, just doing a lot of in-person workshops.
Patrick Shanahan: Amazing. And he's got not only an Instagram account for himself, but he's got an Instagram account for his Airstream, okay? Which lovingly goes by as the 16-foot Bambi in terms of a name. And it looks like you've upgraded your Jeep over the years too, huh?
Kenneth LeRose: Yeah, yeah. There's the blue Jeep I'm in right now.
Patrick Shanahan: Oh, I love it. Wow, that is a heck of a stretch in the rig. You must have camping down to an absolute science at this point, right? Routine where everything goes, how to cook in it, how to live in it, which fascinates the hell out of me because I love camping too. One of the things that I would ask immediately, especially looking at your work and having an understanding of it, is like, what's your niche? Right? Do you have a niche, or is it just like literally the most spectacular beauty that the United States has to offer and even beyond? Because it looks like you've been everywhere, man, Johnny Cash style.
Kenneth LeRose: Johnny Cash style. Oh, man, niche... I think it's really up to other people to decide where they think my work shines. I just love taking pictures. I do love astrophotography. I love chasing auroras, and I absolutely love chasing comets or any kind of celestial event. So I'd probably say that most people that sign up for workshops or want to learn from me, maybe not just the landscape, but I think they want to learn more of the astrophotography. Anytime there's a comet... I just did an impromptu comet workshop on this last one that came in like in the fall, and it was literally like three days' heads up that we were going to shoot this, and got some really cool shots of it. So yeah, I think astrophotography is what I really enjoy teaching.
Patrick Shanahan: The workshops currently are the core of the business, right? That's how you're bringing in the majority of your income.
Kenneth LeRose: Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it. Some brand stuff here and there, and just some little... as much passive income as I can. Which, of course, brought me back onto Art Storefronts because I need to create some more passive income. I want to sell my work. I want to see it on people's walls. I want them to enjoy it. I want them to experience it. I want them to be emotionally connected to some of these images, for sure.
Patrick Shanahan: For sure. It's a very engaging Instagram page to scroll, and that is for doggone sure. I want to get into selling the work passively and how you found Art Storefronts in the first place. But what do you... how exactly are you marketing the workshops, just out of curiosity, and getting butts in seats for those things?
Kenneth LeRose: I think a lot of it is through an email list that I've built over the years. Social media was my initial... that's how I really got started. And also teaming up with people. I team up with some really talented photographers and tapping into each other's network. I think really helps to put butts in those seats and fingers on those shutter buttons. So that's predominantly the marketing. Unfortunately, I work with one of the Michael Jordans of photography, Michael Shainblum, and we actually just wrapped up a workshop yesterday. We did a six-day winter waves road trip that was incredible. Yeah, I think just like diversifying who you work with, finding people that you really enjoy working with, and yeah, just makes it fun and easier to network with more potential students.
Patrick Shanahan: Do you feel like there is an opportunity to bolt a digital class of some kind onto it? The scouting these spots, the retouching, the setup... I wonder if that's not a good avenue to explore too, just because you've already had success in the workshops, and you've got a waitlist and everything else.
Kenneth LeRose: Dude, I've filmed so many tutorials and so many classes, and I've released zero of them. Yeah, it's just... it's like another animal. There's just so much that you can do, and I think I'm like at that point where I want to create digital products, and I actually have created digital products, but finishing them is like that daunting task, man. I've never done it, and I'm just like, "Oh, I feel like so many people..." Because we're not wired like... I'm wired to create, and that's what I love doing, and I love teaching, so all that comes natural for me. But when it comes to marketing and putting those types of things together, can I just not work and just take photos? Yes, you and every artist out there. Can I just create, and somebody else handles everything else? Please.
Patrick Shanahan: Yes, but I do... just based on what I'm seeing, and you have the teaching knowledge, okay? And all the nuts and bolts of the tripods, setup, location, shutter speed, retouching, all the technical nuts and bolts. But to somebody that probably doesn't understand camping, like the location data that you have too, where to go, where to park, when to hit this place... like, that's really desirable too. I feel like we need to drive you into some sort of studio and lock you for two weeks, just to record the video, solid internet, record the screen captures, and get a damn class in the water. Because in terms of passive income, in many ways, it's even better than art. Because I can see that you're suffering, even with this massive Instagram following, from the same thing that most artists and photographers are suffering from, which means out of the 70,000 followers you have on Instagram, we get 40,000 of them are photographers, which are not the best subjects to buy wall art, and are the best subjects to buy digital classes.
Kenneth LeRose: Which I do strongly encourage you to do, and I'll have some thoughts for you offline on how to... cool, literally lock yourself in a place where you can do it, because you have the personality for it too. You just need like a slave driver to lock you in there and be like, "Just make this happen." And I'm getting questions on Instagram about if they want more information about your workshops, just contact you on IG DM. Is that the best way to find out?
Kenneth LeRose: No, the best way is to go to my website. The link in my bio on my website... it's weird, DMs don't work on Instagram for me. I don't know why. But the best way is just drop your email on my website. There's a little pop-up to join my newsletter, or you can just hit the contact me up there and drop a message, and then I'll definitely get your email. If you email me, then I'll get it. If you send a DM, it's so weird, man. Instagram... I don't know how to fix that. If I don't follow... if we don't follow each other, then those DMs don't go through. It comes through and goes into... it doesn't even go in there. It's just like these weird spamming porn stuff that goes in there. I don't get legit messages in that. For whatever reason, somehow the porn ones get through, but all the rest don't. I don't know why.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, Instagram needs to clean up that whole experience. It's a clunky mess. But the pilot thing that I'm suggesting is actually a good hack for that, so we'll talk through that on the other side. One thing that I see right away, okay, that I said to you when we were warming up, is you need to bridge the visual gap. And the way that I always say this, okay, and you probably heard me say this or maybe you haven't, but it's like... Kenneth, if I hired you to sell knives for me door-to-door, when you knocked on that door, what would you have in your hands?
Kenneth LeRose: I'd have a nice, shiny, sharp knife.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, yeah. So when you have a picture of the knives, you would have to be a pretty damn good salesman, right? You would have to be a really good salesman. And look, I know it's hard because you're traveling the world. It's not like you have space for a giant rolling inventory in Bambi, the Airstream. True. But what I've learned over my years of doing this... the physical holding the thing and being able to show off the thing and show that it has three dimensions and that it's real, it's not just a photo, is more important now than it ever has been. Because everybody's on Instagram all day long, and on Instagram all day long are beautiful photos just like yours, like amazing, millions of them. And just by virtue of reps and sets and repetition, like it's the one thing no one sees, right? The actual product that I can lust after, that I can focus on. So we've got to figure out a way to get some samples somewhere shipped on the road, picked up some sort of random FedEx spot somewhere.
Patrick Shanahan: You guys, when we were talking just before the episode started, Kenneth is like, "Can we make this more of a working episode?" And I want to talk about everything that I've just done through this Black Friday and Cyber Monday. So he's going to share that story in a second. But how did you find Art Storefronts originally, and then tell them how long you waited to get your website live? Because I love this story too.
Kenneth LeRose: I think back in like 1992, I discovered Art Storefronts. No, I don't. Dude, it's so long ago that I don't even remember. Oh, I do remember. I had a friend who had gotten Art Storefronts, and she had told me, "Oh, this is the best website if you want to sell art. They do all this stuff." And I was just like, "Okay." I was still like barely new. I was probably a couple of years into photography. It was back in 2017, I think. I've been a customer since 16 or 17. And you know, I paid the big bucks, and then I couldn't figure out how to do all this because I'm not technologically savvy. So I went through, and my thing was a mess. So I called customer service, cleaned it up, put some stuff on there, wasn't making any sales, then I put it in hibernation mode for six years. And then recently, I brought it back, and I talked to... dude, Berlin was like... I don't know how big the company is, but Berlin, I love her. She is so awesome. So Berlin, if you're listening to this, thank you for all your help setting up my site. She basically explained how everything worked on Art Storefronts, so now I'm able to navigate all through it and do whatever I need to do. And yeah, so I spent some time putting together all my photos. I also write poems that go with every photo, so every photo that I post actually has a poem that was written specifically for it. It's just another form of creativity, not using AI to create these poems. These are just my retrospective or introspective thoughts to put into some rhyming scheme that I enjoy doing. So yeah, I coordinated all those photos or connected them with poetry on the website. And what was that... I don't know, six months ago or so, and I finally just did... yeah, I finally just did like a launch where I did a free giveaway, also included a free one-on-one workshop with that, and that helped to generate a lot of leads, a lot of emails, and interest. And yeah, building that email list, but I followed the guide on you guys' site. Yeah, it was super helpful. I just followed that guide like to a tee, and then yeah, it was... I thought it was pretty successful.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, a great launch. But okay, Kenneth just went through his Black Friday Cyber Monday playbook, right? Which is driving the traffic to your site, following all the advice that we give them. And this is what we were talking about before he came online and did that with a decent size email list, right? Like, what size is your email list at now?
Kenneth LeRose: Like 1,500.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, so 1,500 on his email list, 70,000 on Instagram, and even Mr. Airstream has 4,700 followers, which is a good comment. And the results were suboptimal, subpar, butt-kissed, skunked... zero. So we were talking about that ahead of time, and it's like the most difficult thing to begin with. And then I want to get your two cents on why you think the results were... they were... you've been in this business for a while now, right? You've been growing this crazy following. The internet is telling you you're very good at what you do because you're getting a ton of validation. You're teaching these workshops where more and more people are learning about you, and your name is getting out there and everything else. And yet, you've had the website up for six months, and so it's deflating on some level because you're like, "I'm really starting to catch my stride in my career, but digital marketing on the website stands... you're six months into it, you're just getting going."
Kenneth LeRose: Yeah, I actually shifted from Art Storefronts a year or two ago... no, three years ago, sorry. Three years ago, I opened up a shop for five days. I put some stuff on Shopify, and I had some success. I marketed the hell out of it, so I understand how to market this. Like, I understand that you need to be consecutive for weeks leading up, and then build it up, keep on adding more and more stuff to get people hyped, excited, add scarcity to the mix, drop some deals, extend them a little bit longer, and just really like massage and marinate that list of customers, those people that you've built that trust over the years with. And so I had some success years ago on Shopify, opening up a store for five days, extending it two days, and I think I sold three or four thousand in art in those five days. And then, but that was three years ago, and like, I built much more. So I went into this Black Friday like thinking, "Man, this is it. I'm going to rock this because I'm going to take what I've learned." And I isolated three photos, and I made them exclusive to Black Friday. If you loved them, you had to purchase them because they weren’t going to be on my website after that. I took the guesswork out of what sizes to get—I did 24 by 36, gave 35% off the price, so it was even around 250. And on Black Friday, I sold none.
I also only offered them on paper. So then I thought, "Okay, Small Business Saturday, I’m going to sell something," or, "Small Business Monday, I’m going to sell something." Nothing. So I was like, "Crap, alright. Cyber Monday, we need to switch things up. I’m going to pivot and add three more sizes that are more affordable because 250…"
is a lot that maybe people are not willing to part with." So I put a 12 by 18 that was $69. Now, in that price range, people would be like, "All right, I'm going to support this guy's work. Man, he's been hammering this down. I really love this one photo." And I made zero sales. Zero. And yeah, like you said, I sold something else to a friend who... thanks, Allison... she bought one of my prints. Like, I sold a couple of other things, but nothing from the Black Friday. And yeah, so actually, I'm open to... I'm not quite sure. Maybe it was that I wasn't holding the art, but I did a lot of... it'll make a massive difference.
Patrick Shanahan: It makes a massive difference. I don't know what it is about the alchemy of it being the actual product. And you need to break up what you have on them. If I just scan this, and you always have to be thinking in your head like, "No one has any time. It's all social media. We're all moving at a million miles an hour with our thumbs, right?" And it's like, if I move through years at a million miles an hour, the photos are so good, it's almost hard to believe that this is an individual account. It feels more like one of these Instagram curators, you know what I mean? Curate like the most amazing images from all over the world because you have so many just absolutely stunning photos. And you got to break up the visual pattern of that and get into a scenario where one, you're showing the art on the wall, even if it's room mockups, right? You want to, ideally, it's the real wall, but if it's room mockups, great. And then sometimes you holding it. And I can guarantee you, even just that little subtle shift, even if it makes something like that, makes it in every seventh or eighth image. And I know it's a pain in the ass because obviously, you have to get the work printed, and then you have to hold it, and you have to get it shipped to you and all of that. It will fundamentally change their perception. That's number one. Number two, you can't beat yourself up because the art market three years ago versus now, night and day difference. Like, this is a rough year for everybody, independent of the fact that the stock market is absolutely ripping, and the data that came out of Black Friday Cyber Monday about how more a larger percentage of commerce is switching away from retail to online. Dude, inflation is ripping. Inflation is ripping. Prices are out of control. Gas is out of control. Rent is out of control. No matter what the media says or what the landscape out there is, it was a hard year. It was a hard year. So you can give yourself a mulligan on it.
Patrick Shanahan: One of the things that he and I were talking about is there is a service on Instagram and Facebook. There has been for quite some time. It's called ManyChat, which essentially gives you the opportunity to have a chatbot that works via comments, via stories, via direct messages. And when you have 70,000 followers like he does, it's crazy what you can do with it. So I told him, we have a service internally at Art Storefronts. It's a really hard thing to do because it's one of those things like, if you have small follower accounts, it doesn't do anything for you. If you have large follower accounts, you could seriously be cooking with gas, like leveraging it and doing print giveaways. You could probably capture 500 to 700 emails a week, which is a lot. You could have a very robust email list in a very short period of time. So we'll experiment with that. We'll call this episode one of this particular series, and I'll bring him back after he's gone through this service. We'll run it through sometime in Q1 when things quiet down because obviously, it's the holidays and the start of the year and all that craziness. But sometime late January or February, we'll run it, and absolute game-changer because it gets people... without going too far into detail, like the number one thing to do on a social media platform, the number one thing the social media platform wants you to do is not send anybody off the social media platform. Because Instagram is at war with Facebook, Facebook is at war with Twitter, X is at war with LinkedIn, they're all at war with YouTube. They all hate each other. All they're looking to do is have nobody ever leave their platform. And so what ManyChat does is it operates as a chatbot inside the Instagram DM box. So when you compare like, "Hey, go to the link in my bio, leave the social network, then go to a website," and by the way, Instagram has its own web browser that, by design, gives you a crappy web experience because they don't want you leaving. They don't want you doing it. So the fact that you keep them all on platform completely changes the conversion rate. But for you, as I look at it, I feel strongly that if I put some questions in the bot, and we'll do this right, and you and I make a bet before it happens, like what percentage of Kenneth's audience are actually photographers? It is not going to be a small number. It is going to be an extremely large number, right? It's going to be like 30, 40, 50, it could even be 60%. But it's good to know that, right? One of the things that I love about guys like you is you have done the hardest thing, which is build an audience of 73,000, okay? Which is more, like I said, than 95% of the people that are on Instagram, maybe 92%. It's somewhere in the high 90s. So you've already got validation that your work is amazing, that there's something here. So now you have to work like hell at figuring out what is the best product that's going to sell them. And even if we go this, and it's like your audience, and especially the way you've been marketing on Instagram, you've attracted a ton of photographers. Guess what? A ton of photographers would buy that damn course because they can't go to a workshop, and some percentage will buy the workshop. And if we ask the questions in the bot, and we find out who they are, then we can start routing them appropriately, tagging them appropriately. So I think that'll be really fun, really amazing.
Patrick Shanahan: Just dude, you got the most interesting man in the world vibe. So what are you going to... what is the long-term plan in terms of... you're on the road, you're hitting all these places. Do you even have a home base, or is it like no, you're just in the Airstream, and it's wherever you park as home?
Kenneth LeRose: Yeah, that's it, man. Yeah, I don't have a home base. I don't have a mailing address. I just... yeah, I've been seven years just meandering around, going where the weather is good for this guy, making sure that he's comfortable, I'm comfortable. And right now, we're on the Oregon coast. I think I mentioned that earlier, where it's wet. Yeah, wet and wet. Yeah, yeah, man. I don't know. There's no... I just go with the flow here, and I've just been really actively building my business over the last couple of years. I went through some highs and some lows, and now I'm like back in building mode the last two, three years. So it's... yeah, it's really important for me to get all that on track so that it's just a well-oiled machine that can exponentially grow, and I can just connect with more people. My passion is the teaching, so I know that I need to spend more time putting together these tutorials and these online courses because, like you said earlier, not everybody can afford that high-ticket item to come out in person, but they want to learn. And I want to be able to cater to all different people that maybe can't afford to come out but really want to learn and expand their creativity.
Patrick Shanahan: 100%. And we have another customer that is like... his following is obscene because he's like a Planet Earth, BBC, PhD, and ornithology guy. And you know, I hammered him. I'm like, "Man, you got to do one. You've got to do one." And he locked himself up, knocked it out. I'll send it to you after the fact. And he usually photographs birds. It's all around how to photograph birds and how to go through that. And it's the same story you are. It's like, you did the hard work of building an audience. The audience loves what you do. Now you have to just keep taking shots to figure out how to monetize them. And in terms of price points, it's amazing when you have an audience like this on Instagram. You've got to have the price points for everyone. You need to include the art and the merch, starting from zero to a hundred. Then from a hundred to a thousand, your prints get a little bit bigger. Maybe at a thousand or even over a thousand, the workshops start, and you can also introduce courses. So you’ve got this range from zero to five thousand. And anybody that comes in and loves the work and gets attached to it, there'll be a ton of interest. But I also encourage you to get a little bit more of you. Get a little bit more of the dog. So that I... I usually say, if I hit your profile and I can't learn something about you in a matter of seconds, I'm gone. I'm out of there. And you, like all photographers, at least on your Instagram page, like hiding behind the lens. Right? It's hard because you're like, "I don't want to post anything about my software. I don't want to get super into it." You got a couple of reels that are really hidden, and this is... oh, this was your Black Friday Cyber Monday stuff, I bet, right? I'm holding up... now you should be able to say it. Oh, I don't remember what that was. Maybe I don't know what that... that might have been a live with my... with the... with Shainblum for the waves.
Kenneth LeRose: Oh, yeah, Q&A live.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're using the lives too, which is great.
Kenneth LeRose: Oh, yeah, I try to go live at least once... at least once a month to do like a Q&A or do something fun and just... yeah, just... I want to... I want to challenge you to do that once a week.
Patrick Shanahan: Okay, yeah, I could do that.
Kenneth LeRose: Enjoy. I like that. Yeah, it's super fun, and it's... let's be honest, you've got downtime.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, yeah, I'm happy to do it. Yeah, you can't just walk out to the local bar or whatever because you're in the middle of the wilderness, which is glorious. So yeah, again, you got 73,000, so it's like you press the button, you're talking to hundreds, potentially, depending on what time of day it is and the Instagram algorithms and this, that, and the other. But love that, Kenneth. Challenge you to get some prints in hand. Challenge you to go live once a week. We're going to come back, and we'll report back to what he's done on the ManyChat thing, and watch what happens to his business when he shifts to letting people know, "Here's the beautiful thing that I have for sale," and holding it up, and is able to keep everybody on platform. We might even try some extra trickery of selling some things in the bot, which is another thing that you can do. And I haven't really experimented. I usually ask people... you haven't been on Art Storefronts for that long, technically working on it, but if there's one thing that we can improve and one thing we can make one way better, just one thing, what would it be? Trying to get down to your biggest gripe or your biggest... oh, man, I wish I...
Kenneth LeRose: Yeah, so I think when I shifted over from Shopify because that's what I was using for my workshops... so now I use WeTravel and Art Storefronts, so those are like my two platforms that I integrate together. My issue now is that people were finding me on Shopify pretty easily through Google, and I have a lot less... yeah, for some reason, people are not finding me. So I'm not getting someone random looking up a wave workshop and seeing stuff that's on Art Storefronts or WeTravel. So figuring out how to increase the SEO... I don't know if having Art Storefronts in the beginning... like, usually, you pay a little bit of a price when you switch from one to the other, but then it'll normalize. We'll have somebody support look and make sure you have all your settings correct there. I imagine you do. It can be helpful to resubmit a sitemap to Google, but we don't need to get into the technical details of that on this. I'll get someone in support to help you with that.
Kenneth LeRose: Cool, cool. Yeah, thanks.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, yeah, so that would be my only... is just give me that exposure, baby.
Kenneth LeRose: Yep, yep, we're going to get it.
Patrick Shanahan: So you guys definitely follow Kenneth. He's KR_Lore_Photo on IG. He's got links in there for all the things. You can follow his adventures. He's soon going to be holding up art at some of the most majestic places in this entire country and beyond. And kind of huge thanks for your time. Thanks, everyone else, for listening, and everybody have a great rest of your day.
Kenneth LeRose: Thanks, guys. Yeah, thanks for having me, man.
