Artist Betty Franks

In this video interview, we delve into the inspiring story of Betty Franks, an artist who began her career in her mid-fifties and swiftly found her niche. Now a successful creator with a massive following on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube, Betty shares her experiences of transitioning from the corporate world to full-time artistry. She emphasizes the importance of learning, marketing, and connecting with audiences on social media. Betty also highlights various income streams, including teaching and creating smaller art pieces catered to different audiences. This episode is packed with valuable insights for artists of all seasons of life, focused on encouraging, empowering, and inspiring viewers to forge their own path. Join us to learn about Betty's journey, her dedication to her craft, and her achievements in the art world.

Podcast Transcribe

Patrick Shanahan: There is just no one way to make it as an artist. This interview with Betty Franks, uh, you have an artist that started in her mid-fifties, immediately found her niche, which is now firmly established, started social media marketing and has a huge following on IG, 152,000, huge following on Facebook, huge following on YouTube. I'll put all the links in the show notes. Uh, and she's been well over the six-figure-a-year mark, uh, for years now. And, you know, not only is it rare to see someone hit a niche right out of the gates and actually have one, most people are sort of all over the place early creatively. I think her story of quitting the corporate world and becoming a full-time artist late in life, uh, is a goal that a great many artists aspire to achieve. So I think her story is just so, so interesting, and I hope you enjoy it. Now, before we start, I want to get back to this notion that there's just no one way to make it as an artist. Discount your work versus don't discount. Have sales versus don't have sales. Sell prints versus not. Try the gallery system or only direct. Offer merch or not, right? Do in-person fairs or shows or none at all. Um, in this new series of artist, photographer, creator interviews, we strive to bring you a bunch of stories, a past taken, of roads to success, of blueprints that you can follow, or not. Uh, every artist has to go their own way and sort of forge their own path, and my sincere hope with this new series is that these stories just sort of emerge, uh, to encourage you, empower you, inspire you, and, you know, give you some ideas as you attempt to forge your path. Uh, we have a range of these coming up with artists and photographers and creators of these stories. Every season of life, every stripe, every part of this country, other countries, every medium, combined mediums, niches, gallery owners. And so, um, I think they're going to be really, really good. So if you've not subscribed on YouTube, I highly encourage you to subscribe on YouTube. For those that are just listening to these, uh, in the podcast, I'm finding a lot of these interviews are being kind of show and tell. People are showing us work or walking through the gallery. So you're going to want to be able to see the video that's only on YouTube for now. So I will put a subscribe link in the show notes. Uh, and you know, you're going to want to watch them aside from having to look at my ugly face. There's, there's some cool show and tell stuff going on. So really encourage you to subscribe. This is like new for us doing video-first interviews all the time. Um, so on that note, so here is my interview with artist Betty Franks. Ah, wait, before I forget, two things. One, lest you think Betty got lucky, I'm putting her social profiles in the show notes or the description. Follow her on a social platform and leave a comment. See what happens. She responds to every single solitary one. It's crazy how hard she works. And number two, as the video rolls along, it took about 10 minutes for her video to work. Uh, so apologies on that. But I hope you enjoy the episode. I'm really excited to introduce Betty because she's just absolutely a unicorn in terms of the art world. And we're going to get into her incredible story, and I can't even wait to discover it because I know her, but I don't know Betty super well. Um, but she's such a unicorn in so many ways. It's like one, she started late in life. Two, she's one of the few artists out there where she absolutely has a nailed niche. If you see any one of her pieces after you've seen a couple of them, you instantaneously know that's a Betty Franks, right? And these are such a huge question. So we'll get into that and we'll talk about that. She's really, really good at social media. And what's more, when I say unicorn, it's clear that she actually enjoys it. Okay? If that is not unicorn status, I don't know what is. Define niche, okay? Enjoys doing the social media, and she's really good at it. Unheard of. Unparalleled. So we'll get into some of that fun stuff too. And on top of it all, she's willing to participate in the crazy ideas and case studies and things that we've done over the years, which is super fun, and I'm super grateful and thankful that she's allowed us to mess around on her account and do some of these things, which we've had some fun doing. And on top of it all, I've not met her daughter, and I know her daughter's, like, kind of grown up now, but if I did, you know, I would be confident if I asked her daughter whether or not your mom was one of the cool ones when growing up, you know, where all the friends were over and like all the high school gals wanted to come over because she's just cool. So, that is my introduction for you, Betty. Welcome. Uh, extremely excited to have you. And, uh, awesome. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you, ASF family. Thank you, all of my friends out there for joining in. I so appreciate you being here, and I'm super excited to share with you. Um, you know, like Patrick said, um, we didn't script anything. We don't know where this is going to go. So we're just going to have some fun and, um, chat with you guys for about an hour and then take some questions. So feel free to, you know, leave comments. Uh, so Patrick can check out the questions so that we can tackle those at the very end. Love it. Love it. So I always start these things out with the origin story. You know, I, I, anyone that follows Betty knows she's Croatian, but I kind of want to hear a little bit about that. Cause you're actually one of the few, you're at a hundred percent something. You're a hundred percent Croatian, aren't you?

Betty Franks: I am. Um, let's see. Am I? Yes, I am because both my parents are. I was born in Toronto, and I was commenting to somebody, um, I was born in Toronto. When I was seven years old, we moved to California because Toronto had snow, and Croatia doesn't have snow where my parents are from. So the snow was a little too difficult for them. And there were already some people from the same village that my parents are from in San Jose, which is where I am right now. And, and so we moved here. Um, I grew up here, and when I was in my late twenties, I moved away for almost 26 years. And I came back in 2016, I came back. So super happy to be back. I'm very close to my brother and sister. Uh, my daughter is with me here too. And just my brother, my sister, my family, the creation community that I grew up with is here. And so really excited to, um, to be back in California. And before that, I was in, um, the last 20 years of that I had spent in Seattle. So the story I love to tell is that when I moved back, every morning, I'd open my curtains, and I would say, "Oh my God, the sun is out again." Uh, so, so happy about the sunshine.

Patrick Shanahan: Love it. Amazing. Now, when I, when I like, you know, message you or whatever, and, and was asking you for some questions, trying to figure out what a headline in was, which is really the only prep that we did, and it was short and sweet. Right. Um, you started late, right? You're you started your formal art career late. So I want to hear about that before. When did you start as an artist? When did you start painting? Because I have a hard time believing you just picked up painting when you were like 50 or whatever, right?

Betty Franks: Yeah. Well, and that's true. Leading up to my 50th birthday, for a few years, I was like stamping cards, you know, lining them up just right, you know, getting the stamping done. If it wasn't perfect, I had to start all over. I would spend hours just making one card, a birthday card, but I loved it. And then I stumbled upon mixed media, and I still to this day remember that falling in love feeling. I was like, "Oh my God, this is what I need to do because an imperfect stamp is perfect." And so I spent, um, a couple of years doing mixed media, and that was right around my 50th birthday because what I did for my 50th birthday is I reached out to people who were following me, excuse me, this was on Facebook. And I said, you know, I'm turning 50, and I'm making these cards. And would you like one? So I made 50 original mixed media cards that I sent out to 50 people for my 50th birthday. And that was a lot of fun to do. And then after that, I kind of wanted to do a little bit more. I was starting to notice abstract art in a way that I never noticed it before. I never before liked abstract art. And what I had discovered was I never liked the abstract art that I saw. And I guess I never pursued it enough. And I was starting to see more of it, especially with the internet becoming a lot more accessible. And so I was just finding all these images that I was just falling in love with. And at some point in 2015, I was telling Patrick, I might be coming down with something, but there's something in the air. Take as many water breaks as you need. All good. Yes. I'm not used to talking so much. Um, 2015. I went to a workshop up in, um, Victoria, Canada, and it wasn't a workshop for abstract art. It was more of a workshop for artists to work within, and I kind of put a line in the sand, and I said, okay, from this day forward, I'm going to be an abstract artist. Now, I had no idea what that meant. I didn't know what that was going to look like. I show up to this workshop with a 36 by 36 canvas and 30 by 30 by 40 and stuff that I've never worked on before, but I just said, I'm going to do this. I'm going to go for it. And so from that day forward, that was 2015. And so it took me several years of experimenting, trying different things, taking some workshops from people that I liked, trying to figure out this whole abstract thing because I knew it's what I wanted to express, but I just didn't know how I was going to express that. And it was really frustrating during that time because I couldn't figure out my style. It wasn't until 2018 that I figured out my style. So it took me several years of just, I just tried everything, anything that spoke to me, I gave that a try. And, you know, I quickly learned don't like this, don't like this. Okay. I kind of like that. I definitely love my mixed media days and what I had done because I wanted to be an abstract artist. I got rid of all of it like 98, 99 percent of it. I kept just a couple of little items because I knew I would be distracted if I had that stuff laying around my studio. And so by getting rid of that, I was just focused on trying to figure out this whole abstract thing. And so in March of 20, May of 2018, I was in Croatia visiting my parents, and my mom and I would go for walks in May 2020. All the wildflowers are in bloom, and we would go, it's called Zadr, I don't know how to say that in English, but in Croatian, it's the other side of the hill, in a way, um, because the village is down below, and up and over is just the land, you know, it's trees and land, and back centuries ago, they would go up there and plant their potatoes and stuff like that. So, we would go for walks, and we would pick all these wildflowers, and we would make these little bouquets, and we'd bring them home, and we'd have them all over the house. And I remember specifically sitting outside with my art supplies that I brought and paper that I brought, 11 by 14 paper. And I remember still to this day saying to myself, okay, Betty, you're on vacation. Don't worry about anything. Just create, just have fun. And I started creating, and something different was coming out of me. And it was, it wasn't something I recognized right away. It took me some time to figure that out, but I was able to look back and say, wow, that was, I was creating those flowers, those flowers. We were seeing those flowers. We were picking those flowers around the house. And so that was a huge turning point for me once I figured that out. And then I was able to kind of look back, and there were months leading up to that, that my style was just kind of there, but not there yet. I could see elements of it. And so since 2018, I have been creating in this style. It's really neat. It's a specific style. And like you said, Patrick, you know, a lot of people do recognize my work because I am consistently creating in that style. But yet there's like, there's like these little shifts within it as well. And, and those are exciting for me. I know they're not really obvious to a lot of people, but somebody commented today, I think, on one of my posts. They said, Betty, I like the more open space you're leaving on your pieces. And thank you, because that person recognized that there's a little shift happening. So super excited where I'm at and, and love what I'm doing. And I know I'm not going to create like this forever. Uh, nothing is forever, right? But we go with what feels good and what is working and what, and really what it comes down to, it's what I love. I just love creating the way I'm creating right now. But I know that that's going to shift, and I'll make changes in the future.

Patrick Shanahan: I mean, you were going to absolutely infuriate people. You started late, started painting late, and then boom, you know, started going. What I was, what I would be curious about one, I want to know when you, when you decided, okay, it's time to start a business. I'm starting a business and what drove that. But before, as you were cooking and going through your styles and picking the flowers and everything else, did the marketing machine on your end start already?

Betty Franks: You know, it started, it did, it did a little bit because when I was trying to figure out my style, it was. I was putting, I was posting on Facebook. And so I was sharing fairly early in my, and before that, I was sharing my mixed media pieces. But when I was starting to, to do some of these other pieces, I started getting people asking me if they can purchase it. And so it started slowly that way. And that whole panic, "Oh my God, what am I going to charge? I have no idea, you know, what I should be asking for it. How do I do shipping? And how do I even package this stuff? And how do I get it out the door?" So it was all a learning process. It's one step at a time. It's like, okay, somebody wants to buy it. Okay. Let's throw out a number. Let's figure this out. Um, everything, it was just one step at a time. So I did start slowly. Um, you know, even my email list, I started collecting and really, I didn't start that until like 2016, 2017, when I was starting to do art shows. And then I was starting to ask for people's emails so that I can start, you know, uh, getting people on my email list. Um, so, you know, it's been since 2016-ish. I want to say maybe 2017. I think more like 2017 because that's when I joined Art Storefronts. Um, and so I'm really excited that I've got just over 9,000 folks on my list now. So and that list is gold. Um, but yes, um, I started getting really serious because I went through a divorce in 20, um, not, it was, it was like 2019-ish, but I was already trying to figure out that I needed to support myself. So really 2017-ish, 2018-ish, I wanted to have that income coming in on a regular basis. A 19 definitely had to have it. And so, um, got a lot more serious about a lot of things, um, in terms of, um, uh, selling and finding, finding a way to bring in money. So it wasn't just selling my art. Um, that's where I really started to expand and go into a number of different, uh, um, income sources for me.

Patrick Shanahan: And that brings up a super interesting question. Do you, do you remember I'm a marketer? I can't help myself. How did you find us back then? Do you remember?

Betty Franks: Wow. That was so long ago. I want to say that I think I saw an ad on Facebook. Got it. Got it. So there you go. Amazing. Love, love hearing that now. Something like that. And it really, you know, when I went through the, um, the interview, the interview, is it an interview demo where I got on the phone and talked with somebody and, and did the, the interview. It wasn't even zoom back then, but, um, I loved what I saw. So I was very excited and, um, it was a no-brainer. It was like, yep, I'm going to do it. Um, but I tend to be that way. I, I am not one who's going to spend months thinking about something. I will do something. If it doesn't work, I'm going to move on to the next thing. Just ship it right there in Betty's words. You know, I love that. You know, I love that. I have to ask, cause I'm just curious. Did you, did you come from a business background? What was, were you just a mom the whole rest of the time? Like where, where, where did you get this skillset?

Betty Franks: Yeah, no, I was in customer service management, um, pretty much all my life. I mean, I started at IBM when I was, um, 18 years old. So I've, I've, yeah, and most of my career was in customer service management and a little bit of, um, uh, customer service marketing in there as well. Um, yeah, so managing people, managing groups of people and, um, love customer service.

Patrick Shanahan: Amazing. And that doesn't surprise me actually. But yeah, it's incredible that you had all of that like business acumen in your head already. The just ship it, the not be a perfectionist, which is so anti-artist. I can't even begin to tell you. And then, and then knowing rather than just creating in a vacuum and then going and seeing whether or not it would sell, you intuitively know, knew, engage my whole audience in this and ask them as to be part of the whole thing. That's, that's absolutely amazing. So, okay. So you signed up with us. The boats were burned. It was a new chapter, a new season in life, and you started in on your marketing, right? And following some of ours, but just uniquely knowing what you knew and did, did everything change when you made that decision? Like, okay, I'm going to take this serious. I'm going to turn it into a business.

Betty Franks: Absolutely. I mean, you know, it's that whole, um, once you make a decision for me, once I make a decision, I'm like full in and I'm trying to figure out, you know, all the different routes I can go and what I can try and. Um, you know, just having a website that looks so professional. Um, you know, it's, it's, um, evolved over the years, but even back then, it was very professional, and I liked the ability to be able to showcase my work in, in a very professional setting, because it just gave the appearance that, even though back here, I may have not exactly known what I was doing, Um, upfront, it looked like I knew what I was doing.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And so it's so crazy to have someone start late and nail their niche right away and then instantaneously get going right away on the marketing, which all of it is crazy. So along that journey, you know, one of the things that I really enjoyed, you know, teasing out of our various different customers and I, you know, I get these questions all the time. It's like, well, what is the average income an average customer makes per year, one per year or two? And I'm like, you guys, I don't know. It is such a multivariate question. It's so different. There's so many different niches and different revenue sources and the different revenue sources, especially, you know, I've got this line, like I've never met a revenue source. I don't like, as long as it's legal, when did you realize, yeah, when did you realize that like, okay, there's my art, this is going to be a silo in the business, I'm going to go start this other thing and get that going on. I'd be curious to hear kind of the origin story of that.

Betty Franks: Yeah. Yeah. So, so my various income streams, I really started focusing more on that. I would say like late 2019, 2020, definitely where I started, um, online teaching, especially during the pandemic. I was doing some online courses and really I kind of kicked myself because I could have done a whole lot more and I could have done, I've got a YouTube channel. I could have grown that channel so much more during the pandemic. I hardly did any videos at that time. It's like, I don't know what was with me. I was like, well, everybody else isn't working. So I'm just going to stay home and create art and have some fun. Um, so, you know, when I look back, I feel like I could have done a whole lot more. Everything's a learning experience and, um, I'm okay with where I'm at today, but, but sure, there's, there's some more things I could have done, but one of the things that I looked at was becoming an affiliate. So. Uh, for example, Nova Color paints. I love, I'm surrounded by them. Um, and I was using them for since 2015. I was using them, that first workshop that I went to, and I was constantly promoting them. And so I kept saying, you know, I'd like to be an affiliate for you. I'd like to be an affiliate. Well, back then Nova Color was a mom and pop shop. And it wasn't till a couple of years ago that they were bought out by a larger company. It still kind of kept that mom and pop shop feel, although they did update their website, which I'm very thankful for. And they set up an affiliate program. I was their first one. And, um, so that was, you know, a way to, I can't make a living off of just that one. So that's one. YouTube channel. I've been growing my YouTube channel. I'm up over 75,000 subscribers now. Uh, this year, I haven't been posting as much because I was traveling a lot. I was in Croatia most of the summer, um, helping my parents because they're getting older. Today's my back, my dad's birthday, happy birthday, dad. Um, so, you know, taking care of mom and dad keeps me from being able to do videos and that's okay. But I still get some money from that, um, doing, you know, running ads on my videos. Another side note, I'll make, I'm making a note. I got to teach you some streaming tricks. We'll, we'll deal with that later. Okay. Um, another, uh, one is, um, on Amazon. So I often talk about my favorite art supplies. And so I like to send people over there or even like the lighting that I use or the camera that I use. I have a camera up above me, um, for, for videotaping here, but all of those things, I try to send folks to my Amazon link. Um, I've also got a link with Blick, for my art supplies. And I'm trying to think which other, um, affiliates I have. I think I'm missing one in there, but, um, well, you have one with that. You have one with us too.

Betty Franks: I have one with you guys too. Yeah. So, so when I chat with folks, people email me, they message me, I spend some time chatting with them. And if they sign up, then, um, ASF, you know, gives me a few months of, um, service. So. All good stuff. You know, all those things help. And then where does the teaching and the classes come in? Because you've been, you've been actively selling those for a while now, right?

Betty Franks: Yeah. So, so for the last several years, I've been, I did a few online classes where I was, um, doing live. So, which was great, like two hours of live with me and we created a piece together. And then I also tried doing like four weekends in a row where I'd have folks join me and it'd be a smaller group. It'd be like 20 folks versus the streaming. I had, you know, a couple of hundred folks joining in this year, I decided, or late last year, I decided I really want to do a really good online course. So I had an online course, but it was a recording from one of my lives and that didn't really, really great. And so I thought, well, that one did so great. And people loved it. Okay. then I should do, I should sit down and really do a good one. So I put a lot of time and effort into creating a full-blown, uh, online course where I walk folks through from start to end, but I really give them my full thinking behind every brushstroke, every color I put down. So, so they can understand it because I got that feedback from people saying, You know, why did you put that there or, or, you know, would you put something over here? And so I thought if I can do a course where you can hear me thinking out loud, it would help. And people have loved that. They loved hearing, you know, why I do what I do. And then, um, within that course, also, we do some exercises, which, you know, are fundamental, and I think they're so key in helping pull it all together. So I put that course together. I launched it in January, and I remember going for a walk with my sister, who just lives a couple of doors down from me. We go for walks every night, and I said, you know, I'd be so happy if I can get 100 people signed up. Well, today we're, I was calculating it's 256 days since I launched it. I've had over a thousand people sign up for the course. And so it's just been, um, for me this year, it's outpaced the, the sales that I've done for my art. And I'm super happy about that. I still create art. I still sell art, but it flip-flops. So last year, cause I was looking at my, I do have, I've got a bookkeeper who does all my numbers. So I was looking at my last year versus this year. And last year I was at 67 percent was out of all my income. 67 percent was selling art. This year, 68 percent so far is selling my online course.

Patrick Shanahan: Amazing. So it kind of flip-flopped quickly. Where can people get your online course?

Betty Franks: Oh, yes, they can just go to BettyFranksArt.com and you'll see the banner at the top. Just click that and that'll get you over to, um, all the details about it.

Patrick Shanahan: Awesome. One shared link. That's amazing. And so, you know, you started essentially with us in 2017, started a little bit in 2016, and then you cross the six-figure threshold in 20, and you've been able to sustain that every single solitary year, which is crazy.

Betty Franks: Yes. And there was a huge COVID bump, I imagine, in 20.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, not one that I was expecting at all. So that's why I was kind of nonchalant about it. I was just, you know, having fun making art, but, um, yeah, it turned out to be a fantastic year and every year, every year since then too. Yeah. Just continually growing.

Patrick Shanahan: Well, I want to get into your social media, but I'm curious how you approach pricing, what your range of pricing is, where do you kind of start out and then what are your big originals peek out at?

Betty Franks: Yeah, so what I learned over the years, especially I would say, especially during 2020, but I think I'd learned this slightly before 2020. And that is that, and I know a lot of folks complain about this, but I have a lot of artists who follow me on social media and I love artists. I'm an artist. I love artists, but also I was trying to figure out, okay, that's my audience. How do I cater to that audience? And that's why I started teaching because those are the people who want to learn from me. Those are the people who are following me to learn more. And so that's why I started teaching, but also I started creating smaller art because I knew these were artists who were starting out, they couldn't afford large pieces like I have behind me. They could afford the smaller pieces. And so I was making like five by seven, nine by 12, 11 by 14. And those were selling very quickly because they were very affordable. So. The five by seven, I think right now is that 95, but I mean, several years ago, I think it was like at 75. Uh, so very affordable original art that I would mat out as well. And then, in addition to that, so, so my low end being 100, 150, uh, for my smaller pieces on paper. And then my larger pieces, you know, several, several thousand. Um, I don't have my super large ones right here because they're at a gallery right now, but I would say. They're up around four. Um, I don't have my price list in front of me, but I do have a price list and I took the emotion out of pricing because early on it was so stressful for me. That I created a spreadsheet, and everything is just, uh, there's a formula in the columns, and I just put in, this is what it should be per square inch, and it spits out a number, and then I kind of round that number, either up or down, um, just so it's not an odd number, and I refer to that every year, I, I update it, either, I think last year, or two years ago, I didn't update it, but this year, I did update it. And I usually do like a 10 percent bump each year.

Patrick Shanahan: Wow. Yeah. Just so I can slowly increase it. I don't believe in doing the big jump and then having to scale back again. Um, it looks really bad when you have to cut back. Uh, another thing you'll find is I very rarely, rarely ever, and I put this probably goes against ASF practices and I know it does, I rarely ever will have a sale on my art. Um, I just, I feel that my art is, um, what it is and I will work with you. However, more than not, I will first, uh, give you a full discount on the shipping. I may even pay for the entire shipping, uh, depending on the piece. So I would prefer to discount it that way instead of discount the actual art piece. Um, now that doesn't go for my prints. Um, I will offer discounts on my prints, and I'm just gearing up to do prints again. And Patrick, you'll be so proud of me, I've ordered a metal one, I've ordered a paper one. You guys, she hasn't been offering prints the entire time. She's been doing only originals. So that I can do so that I can do my live this week and talk about those so that I'm gearing up. So yeah, I got those all and you know, when you, when you say that, like you've never run sales and you never run discounts, notwithstanding the little bit of discounting you do with the shipping and getting on the phone with people. You also have a tremendous amount of demand already, which makes you a unicorn, right? So, you know, the fact, the fact that you're able to do that is because there is so much demand right out of the gates, right? If you wind Betty's business all the way back to the beginning. Like she was getting requests like hey, can I buy that? Hey, can I buy that? Hey, can I buy that right out of the gates, which is crazy too. I'm so happy you're ordered You've got prints You've needed prints for so long and you sort of I know you sort of hacked your way to it because your hack was just doing Those small pieces which you've done forever So you clearly you clearly always had the zero to a hundred hundred to a thousand thousand plus without question That what would be interesting for you is that now that the prints all come into the equation All the originals should get bumped up Like way more than the 10 like way more. Okay, so just think about that. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, we'll have to we'll have to get into a pricing one thing I don't want to I don't want to walk away from though is that How is it? That you're able to sell in galleries and still do everything that you do online and still have all of your items on our storefronts. And what is that? What? What was that like negotiation process look like? Um, do you feel like you came into that relationship with so much clout? You could say how it was. Do they try to tell you like, I'm not going to sell your stuff unless you take down everything online. Like, how did that look?

Betty Franks: Yeah, so, So actually, so when I'm working with a gallery, I do have their work online, but it's, you can't order it from my website. Um, but I show everything that I've got at the gallery on my website as well. Now, one thing that I, so I do have a little bit of ability to, to negotiate because I do have a really good following. So my negotiation is. Um, like one gallery that I worked with, I'm no longer with them because unfortunately they closed, um, she retired. They were fantastic. They sold so much of my artwork. But what we did was, you know, it's a 50-50 split. However, if I send the buyer to them, then it was a 60-50, a 60-40 split. So I got 60%. So I was able to negotiate that a little bit. You know, I might be able to negotiate that up a little bit higher, uh, the next time. But I was happy with it because they really sold so much of my art and they took such good care of anybody who I sent over to them.

Patrick Shanahan: Awesome. And when, when someone contacts you or comes to your art for art storefront site to buy art, how many of those people are you getting on the phone with just out of curiosity?

Betty Franks: Um, I don't actually get on the phone with them. Oftentimes it's via email. And. You know, on occasion, I might get on the phone, but we go back and forth, um, via email. Um, I often ask them to just send me a picture of their, of the room where they want to put the artwork, and so that I can superimpose that right into their room for them. Uh, so that helps a lot. I'm working with somebody right now. We've been going back and forth, um, several times. with different art pieces for the room. So, uh, it's mostly met. It's either on Instagram or Facebook messenger or email. Um, I do a lot of communication that way.

Patrick Shanahan: Amazing. Um, and, and it goes to show what you can do when you have clout, right? Like instead of being utterly, totally, and completely exploited by the gallery, the gallery comes to you and essentially did they, did they find you or did you find them or some combo?

Betty Franks: Um, let's see the first one I was with. They, I, I signed up for an event they were having and I, I didn't have art available for it. And so then they came back to me and said, we really want to have you in our, in our gallery. So I ended up signing up with them. And then the next one, um, they also approached me, which I was really excited about, and the third one, the one that I'm in now, um, also approached me and said we'd love to have you in the gallery. Can you come down and show us what you've got? So I did that and that's how did I know? How did I know that's what you were going to say because everyone is like all day long How do I get into a gallery? How do I get into a gallery? How do I get into a gallery? Well, here's the answer they come to you Right. That's when you actually have some of the leverage and you're actually able to pull it off. Um, so that's amazing. Yeah. And it, and it took, and it took some time, you know, and I really didn't have any interest in being in a gallery for a long time because I couldn't find a gallery that made me feel comfortable. And to be honest, I wasn't out there searching for a gallery that made me feel comfortable. I was just doing my own thing and growing my social media presence. And by doing that, that's where they found me. And then they approached me.

Patrick Shanahan: Got it. Amazing. Um, I want to get, I want to get into the social media. Before I do that, you know, you said something recently that, that I found to be really, really interesting is that you know who your two avatars are. And, and, and you said that somewhere. And I'm, I'm very curious, A, what those avatars are, and B, how you've narrowed down and discovered that those are your two.

Betty Franks: Yeah. So, so the two that I have one already talked about, which is other artists, uh, especially artists who are just getting started. So artists who are following me, that's one of my avatars. Um, I understand them. I know where majority of them are at, and that's why I've created, uh, online workshops. I do in-person workshops. And so that's one of my audiences and the other being the art, the. The collectors, um, the folks, the customers out there, the art lovers who want larger pieces of art for their homes. So I'm always trying to go back and forth between those two, which is, you know, it can be difficult because, you know, I've got, I would say my bigger audience is artists following me, but here's the thing. Artists love art. And so they're buying art and not all of them are just buying my small pieces. Uh, I've got a lot of them who are buying my larger pieces too.

Patrick Shanahan: Amazing. Um, I, I did see some questions in the chat during this whole journey. When, when did you start getting helped? When did you hire help? Have you brought in helped or are you still doing everything on your own? What is, what does that equation look like?

Betty Franks: Yeah. So last year I brought in my daughter to help me out. So, um, she's going to be 27 soon. I know Patrick, you said you don't even know how old she is. She's going to be 27 and, um, she, um, had left her job and she was just looking for something to do part-time. And so I had her helping me out like two to three hours a day and she would mostly do social media for me. She would do some of my posts. I would get those lined up. Um, we're using Basecamp. I don't know if anybody's familiar with Basecamp, but if you've got more than one person, um, it's just this app, um, on your computer where you can assign tasks. And automatic reminders come up when that task is due and then it gets checked off and then I'm notified when it's done. So I created all these tasks, you know, posting Um, she does basic responses to folks But if somebody asks a question or says, you know a bit more Um, I take care of all of those Um, I still like to be in there responding to people. Um, Instagram, I do all of those. Uh, so she just helps me on Facebook, YouTube, and Pinterest. So I am on Pinterest and, uh, we've been focused on growing that. So she's helping me with doing posts on Pinterest.

Patrick Shanahan: Amazing. Um, and I always rant, do you feel like, do you feel like you are generating business from Pinterest?

Betty Franks: Yes, I am. And that's why I need to be on there a little bit more, or I'd like to focus on it a bit more. Uh, we've been trying to come up with additional pin ideas and I post almost a video a day on Pinterest. And I am noticing more folks coming through Pinterest, YouTube and Pinterest. Um, but Instagram is still way up there.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, without question. I mean, I actually usually knock Pinterest Do you feel like the traffic you're getting from Pinterest is art buyers or is it artists?

Betty Franks: It's artists right now Uh, because that's what i've been focused on is my online course But I will be uh shifting that and I need to put together some pins so that I am focused on Changing out my hashtag. So so to speak to target the right audience, which would be the art collector.

Patrick Shanahan: You Got it. Now I want to, I might as well stay on social media. So I, you know, I'd be curious, one, were you just always good at it before you even started doing and enjoyed it because it's very, very clear. And then two, you know, one of the things that I, that I rant on incessantly is that an art sale is 50 percent the art and it's 50 percent who is the artist, what makes them tick, what makes them interesting. I feel like you've always done a very, very good job at that. Meaning. Here's my art, here's what it looks like, and the classes and everything that's involved in that, and then here's who I am, what makes me tick, what, what I do, right, like, you know, anyone that visits Betty's profile instantaneously has some things to connect with her on, that you can understand what she's all about, what she's interested in, who she does. And it's not like a camera's following her around 24 hours a day, you guys. But she shows a little window into her world, right? Like, everyone knows you go to Croatia. Everyone knows you paint flowers. You know, people see you wearing the socks that say, Girls Rule, right? The, the diet, which I want to get into, by the way, because you eat so insanely healthy, it's like, crazy. Like, her regular meals look like something out of, like, Here's How You Eat Healthy, uh, uh, uh, magazine. Um, so I do want to talk about that, but, What was that all just natural? Do you feel like you've grown into that and really hit your stride? Or is that just always how Betty's been?

Betty Franks: It's interesting. Um, when I said I'm fully in, when I'm fully in, I love learning everything I can. And so from the early days, I was constantly reading, listening to, watching YouTube, trying to figure out this whole. Instagram game or Facebook game or how to do marketing or how to do marketing for artists? So learning all of those things every step of the way and and I still do today I swear there's not a day that goes by that i'm not listening to a podcast or watching a youtube video Or reading something that is related to my business so that I can do better And so early on I learned that In order to sell your art, you've got to connect with folks. And first of all, They need to like you. If they like you, then they're going to trust you. And if they trust you, they're going to buy from you. And so I was learning early on that by sharing who I am and not just sharing my artwork, but sharing me, who I am as a person, even as uncomfortable as it was, and it still is today because I am, I'm a, I'm a social introvert. So I am not. I'm not one who likes to be in front of everybody talking all the time. I'm more of a behind the scenes. If you have a party to plan, I'll plan everything for the party, but I don't want to be there in front of the party. So I was just doing things that, that I believed was going to start allowing me to connect with the folks who were starting to like my art. And I wanted them to trust me. And there's, the only way you're going to trust somebody is you got to get to know them. You got to get to know them outside of the art studio.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah. And I, in, in, Artists love, okay great, you're an introvert, right? Okay, no one would say I'm an introvert. I'm definitely not an introvert, I'm an extrovert. But guess what? Artists love hiding behind the canvas and photographers love hiding behind the lens. And I feel like that is everyone's default switch, right? And all of these accounts that I go to, I got exposed to your art. I've now come to your account and here is just an entire block of 2D images. I don't know what you look like. I've never seen you talk. I don't know what you're interested in. I don't know whether you're a dog or a cat person, right? If you like, so few people. Figure that out and can get over that hurdle and then do it consistently. So all of which is one, you guys should follow Betty. She does a great job about it. Like if you can go to someone's Instagram page and scroll down and spend a few minutes and feel like, you know, the person you've won, you've won, right? If they like the art or not like the art, that's not up to you, right? Like you're going to find your tribe, not find your tribe. But if they feel like they know you, you've won. So. Really, really have to encourage you on that. I think you're doing a great, a great, great job. Do you, do you approach the entire thing, Instagram first, everything else second currently?

Betty Franks: You know, um, it's going back and forth right now. Interestingly enough, um, I am working more towards creating a video for Pinterest, and then I can easily use that video on Instagram. So I am switching that up a bit, and I'm more focused again on, on doing something for Pinterest, because the problem with doing it on Instagram is immediately you get their logo on there and then it's really hard to share it somewhere else. And it's not an original, it's not considered original anymore. But by creating these kind of offline, not within Pinterest. Um, not within Instagram and I've got my own apps that I use on my phone to do that, then I can use it in, in several different places. And all the ones, yeah. And they, they all have great AIs now. And it's like the minute, the bouncing logo, the competitor is on top of the thing, like that is not getting any reach whatsoever. You can forget about it.

Patrick Shanahan: Right. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Um, I love that of you guys do not listen to her about Pinterest. It doesn't work. It's working for her because she's attracting artists and she's very good at this. The rest of you ignore it like the plague. Um, I listen to the last call that you guys did. It's like, don't do Pinterest. We don't want to talk about Pinterest. Yeah. Don't talk about Instagram, but, but that's because I'm doing so well on Instagram that I have the ability to now look somewhere else. Um, so if you're just getting started, focus on one. Uh, maybe focus on two, but definitely Instagram being one. Uh, number two, maybe Facebook again depends on your on your avatar because my avatar is 50 and older and a lot of them love Facebook and I get a lot of great conversations and communications happening on Facebook versus Instagram. More of, you know, just a like happening, um, scrolling through and hitting the hearts. But on Facebook, I feel like I tend to get more deeper conversations happening.

Patrick Shanahan: Amazing. Um, God, I'm not running sales. I'm so excited you're adding The Prince though. How have you, how have you up till now, um, approached merch or contemplated merch?

Betty Franks: Okay. So prior to you guys having merchandise, I signed up with, uh, Fine Art America. And so I've got, um, pieces over there that, again, not a huge moneymaker. That's what was missing from my affiliate program was Fine Art America. I should have included that on the list. Again, not a huge moneymaker, but for folks who. Don't want to spend, you know, don't want original art. Maybe they have too much art in their house. They don't have any more room on their walls, but maybe they would like, um, I've got my, Oh, my tote bag is hanging over there, but I've got a tote bag. I've got, you know, the small pouches I've got puzzles, I've got pillows. Um, so a number of different things that are at great price points for somebody who just wants to have some kind of art in their home.

Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, amazing. And I think as you continue to round out your lineup, it really is going to make a huge impact on the pricing that you have at the top end of things, which, you know, I think, I think it'll be a big, big deal. Well, I want to, I want to save your voice, um, for the Q and A. So I, I feel we let's sort of wrap it up with the personal growth slash diet and how you approach taking care of yourself and what role you think that plays in your success. I got the learning piece and I can see it's clear as day that you've been a lifelong learner and that doesn't stop, that doesn't ever go away. Have you always approached your diet this way and and taken that that seriously and how big of a role do you think that's played on things? I think it's an interesting thing to talk about.

Betty Franks: Yeah. Yeah. I love, um, you know, I, I love cooking and I started that years ago and to me, that's another form of art. Um, if you look at my, if my, if you look at my My pieces, my, my plates of art, my plates of food, you'll see layers, you'll see different colors because I still incorporate that into my food as much as I do into my artwork. And, you know, health is important to me because my mom has Alzheimer's. She's in the later stages. Uh, to the point, you know, she doesn't know who I am. So my time spent with her is precious because even though she doesn't know who I am, she senses that she knows who I am. And so I want to take care of my brain health so that I don't have, you know, the same fate that she does. And so eating well, exercising is important to me. It's something that I, I. desperately try to incorporate into my life more the exercising than the eating, but yeah, you know, I don't eat perfect every day and I don't believe in doing that you still got I still have to have my chocolate I am a chocoholic. Um, but you know, I think it's important that that I take care of myself and and that's through I truly believe that food Impacts us, um in so many different ways And so that's important to me.

Patrick Shanahan: Amazing. Yeah. You know, it's funny. And someone threw in the chat, like, why is Pat asking about her diet? It, the last three interviews, Jonah, Meg, and now, and now Betty, like, you know, I'm the marketing guy to the hammer. Everything looks like a nail, right? It's all I talk about all day long. It's all I want to talk about, right? Um, there's more marketing stuff that we could talk about. Um, we're doing some fun stuff on Instagram right now and testing some things. When independent of that, one of the things that I've noticed with all three of you is. You know, your inputs are constant learning and education and seeking people that know how to do it a little bit better than you. And, you know, we're starting to get into some of these questions of like work-life balance and what that looks like. And I would, I would be curious. And I, I've ignored that as a subject matter up till now. And I think it's like interesting to be able to ask that, right? Like how many hours a week are you working on this? How many hours a week have you been working on this since you started? And I mean, I sort of already know the answer to this because. We're both workaholics, but go ahead. You might as well, you might as well tell everybody.

Betty Franks: I, man, I love what I do. And, you know, just this morning I was thinking about, I had a real idea, um, for Instagram, but you know, I was laying in bed and I was thinking, I just, I think of my life and my career being so successful because. I don't wake up to an alarm clock. And that was one measurement of success for me is because I worked in corporate America most of my life and 5:30 a.m. that buzzer went off. And for me to be able to get up when my body says get up and go, um, is a huge success for me. But, but the thing is I wake up and I am so excited to get on my computer. Cause I start off my mornings on my computer. And doing, you know, social media, doing website stuff, uh, learning something, um, updating some, you know, you guys know there, there's a ton of work to be done. I mean, I can spend easily 40 hours a week just doing, you know, the stuff in the background and not creating art, but. I love jumping up and doing this stuff. I mean, first thing in the morning, I just, I get into it. Sometimes I'll sit there for hours on end, um, because I love what I do. I, I love doing all that stuff. So my mornings are typically spent, um, on the computer and then I come to the studio where I am now, um, in the afternoons, uh, where I can, sometimes I bring my computer and I'll do a little bit of painting, a little bit computer work, uh, but mostly, mostly painting during, during the afternoon hours. But do I come in here every day? Not at all. Do I feel guilty about that? Not at all. Um, I create when, um, I, I feel the need to be creating. And right now, and I posted a reel this morning because I'm having a hard time reconnecting with my art studio because during the summer I was gone for two and a half months. I came home for a week. I got sick. I went on a road trip with my daughter for 12 days, an RV trip, which was fantastic. And then I came back for a week, trying to get again, trying to get settled in again, and I have not created anything. Um, and so I'm trying to reconnect with my studio. And so I've decided I'm going to just come in here and just bring my laptop. Even if I just sit here with my laptop and just looking at the painting I've got on the wall that I want to finish and all these other pieces, um, I know I'm going to be inspired too.

Patrick Shanahan: Okay, well I'm gonna, I'm gonna wrap that up with the cheesy interview question and I would, I don't like being the cheesy interview question guy, but I've had so many people ask me this like ahead of this interview and when it was coming up and even before they knew it was going to be you, like I had multiple people in Instagram come with this notion like, You just interviewed two kids in this series, right? Like, because Joan is not even 30, and Meg is young 40s, and they're like, Can you, can you, can you find an artist that's in a, in a season of life like I am, right? Uh, that's in this different season of life, and how they approached it, and how they thought about it, and so, I feel like we have this large audience of folks that are gonna start late in, in, in life like you did, and, If you could go back to, to 2017, Betty, 2018, Betty, and give yourself some advice, not that like you've pretty much had the perfect run up. I mean, every single solitary box, you've hit huge social following over six figures, the three to five year runway, but for going back and being able to give yourself that piece of advice. And then what is your advice more broadly just for, for folks that are getting started a little bit later in life?

Betty Franks: Yeah. So, okay. So going back, looking at myself back then, uh, I. I think the piece of advice that I would have liked to give myself is that, um, to not stress about it. It's all, it's, I always had like this hundred, hundred things on my to-do list and I still tend to do that. But to not stress about that, everything is going to happen when it's time for it to happen and where you put your focus is where it's Is the stuff that's going to get done. So I had to learn to really just focus on one thing at a time. That's why I said, you know, if you're just getting started on social media, start with Instagram, just focus on that because there's so much to learn there. When you spread yourself out and you start thinking about all these other things, other places you should be, it gets really difficult. Um, what was the other question? I'm sorry.

Patrick Shanahan: That's okay. Just advice to folks more broadly or what you would go. I mean, yeah, a little bit about that.

Betty Franks: So, so. Okay, so I'm gonna be 60. In less than a month. All right. So if I can do it at this age, you can do it as well. And, and I do get a lot of folks who are in my age group that are just getting started. And I encourage them because just because you're starting late doesn't mean you can't do it. It means you're going to have to work harder. It means you're going to have to, you know, if you're, if you're stuck on this whole technology thing, you got to get over it. Um, if this is where you want to be, you've got to get over it, but maybe you want to be in a gallery. That's another route to go. What I love about artists is there are so many different routes to take. Every artist creates differently and they have a different artist journey, an artist business journey, and. You get to tailor that and figure out what's going to work best for you. And so just take that one step at a time because there, there's, there's like this, there is no like end finish line here. It's, it's truly a journey. And what you're doing today is going to just move you forward that much faster, but there is no finish line. You're just going to, once you're an artist, you're just an artist. That's it. You are an artist for life. And so, I don't think of it as, you know, I need to get here. This is my finish line. I'm excited about where I am today. I'm excited about where I'm going. And, and also I'm excited about where I've been, even as difficult as it has been, I couldn't be who I am today or where I am today without all of those struggles that I had in the past.

Patrick Shanahan: I love that. And it's such, that's such a great way to conclude it. And, you know, the, the one thing I would say on top of it, that I've sort of been blown away by is. And you're loosely aware of this, but we started running the video sessions right around COVID. So what was that? 2020, I guess. So the sheer thousands of artists that I've talked to on like the outgoing webinars, let alone the ones with our customers. Like I routinely get people in their nineties showing up on the zoom call, asking for advice, asking for like marketing advice. What can I do? And you know, when I say routinely, maybe it's like one a month, but the point of that, and like your finish line one, it's like, You're 60. What if you have 30 years left to still grow the business? That's insane, right? Like, everyone is so wired for these like immediate, immediate right now, you know, uh, results, but understand the timeline. Artists do not turn it off ever. This is who, this is who you are. It's never getting, it's never getting shut off, right? So really, really appreciated saying that. Um, great interview. I enjoyed that. I'm still sensitive to your voice. So we're going to go right into the Q and A.