In this discussion, Patrick and Nick delve into the pivotal lessons learned from the COVID-19 pandemic about the importance of owning distribution channels, especially for artists and photographers. They stress the need for multiple marketing avenues, such as email, Facebook, and Instagram, to weather any crisis. They underscore that building an effective digital marketing strategy takes time and persistence. They also talk about the necessity of having the right mindset, the skill of adapting to new digital landscapes, and the urgency of starting now. The session also covers the practical challenges of transitioning from offline to online art sales and the mindset shifts required to succeed in the digital era.
The Simple Truths About Pricing
Patrick Shanahan: All the lives, all the places, there we go. Alright, you were having issues?
Nick Friend: Yeah, a little bit.
Patrick Shanahan: How we doing?
Nick Friend: Yeah, good, good. So I wanted to start by riffing a little bit on, let's say this, you and I were talking ahead of this and we're talking like COVID seems to be in the rearview mirror to a certain extent, right? COVID, the scenarios that it created, all the offline stuff being shut down, done and dusted, a season that you deal with. But what I think is interesting to talk about is the lesson that it taught about not having all your eggs in one basket. The lesson that it taught about whether or not you had attention that you owned and rented in abundance before it hit, where you would have been and how big picture, and I'm talking next three to five years, it's really the only thing that matters. It's the only thing that matters. It is the distribution channels you own, the attention you own, the size of your email list and yes, the following you have on social media. Because with that, it doesn't matter if COVID comes back, it doesn't matter if race relations deteriorate further and we have more and more and more riots, nothing matters. You own it, you own your own channel and it is not something that happens overnight. It is not something that you can flip like a light switch. The perfect sort of corollary, not corollary, but the perfect analogy, tangent, whatever you want to call it, are these live broadcasts, right? And I constantly bring up, then I said in the office hours last week, like, when you think about these live broadcasts and how they're the future, and you think about the fact that you have 5,000 of them to run, it takes all the stress and the pressure away from number one or number two or number three or number four and number thirty and how good it needs to be. But it also properly aligns your mind to where you're going, right? You need five years of grinding, earn your attention, earn your distribution channel and once you have it, it doesn't matter if COVID-20 comes, COVID-54 comes, more riots, more whatever. You've got it, you've got distribution and there's no better time to start than now.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, you know what I'll add on top of that is, you know, just in the experiences that we have working with photographers and artists on our platform, you know, and watching the natural progression, right, of them learning how to run a digital art business, like an online art gallery business. The skill acquisition that has to take place, right? You have to learn email marketing, you have to learn Facebook marketing, you have to learn Instagram marketing, you've got to learn how to go live and do some of these things. You got to learn a lot. There are all these different facets of it. And you know, what's so interesting is that the people who started a year ago are better than the people who just started. The people who started two years ago are leaps and bounds ahead of the people who started a year ago and so forth. The sooner you get started, right, the sooner that you got started on that, the further along you are and the more advantage you have over everyone else. And I think that is profound going forward, right, because this demand, like the prepper argument, right?
Nick Friend: Is it not true though? Do you know what? I was such a prepper. I literally had a pallet of paper towels in my garage. I still don't need towels. I'm covered. I don't care what pandemic hits. I've got paper towels for years. It's no different. It's no different when you own your own attention, right? It's the exact same thing.
Patrick Shanahan: Well, because like, you know, doing digital marketing and the way that the world is, right? Like, digital marketing is like the only marketing that's even working anymore, right? Like, where there's an advantage. You can't do Direct Mail, right? And things like that. But because it's changing all the time, right? And you know, like all of these different aspects are changing and whatever had an advantage before, you know, no longer does and in six months and you got to stay on top of that and you got to build all those skills, right? You know, it's, it's, it's just, you realize that the people who are better at these things than others are going to capture the demand, right? They're going to capture the demand. And so if you start working on running your art gallery business online and taking the online market really seriously and understanding that this is where the opportunity is, if you start doing that like two years from now, like you're going to be way worse than the person who starts a year from now and you're going to be way worse than the person who already started today and the person who started a year ago too. It's not the same thing as just showing up at an art fair down the street where you have parity, right? Think about that. You can just go to an art show down the street. You kind of, you know, there is some tactical differences, don't get me wrong, right? But it's just one art show for one day. And so, you know, you, you, you kind of have parity with the other people. But when it comes to running an international art gallery business online, like we see it all the time. Some people who come in that legitimately sold in galleries, sometimes in very high amounts, then that whole thing got wiped out. They can't get anywhere online. They can't get anywhere and they're starting from scratch trying to get things going and then they start getting things going, but they're so, it makes you realize they are so, they were so much further along in the gallery world, right? Than, than other people. But in the online world, the people that are doing really well in life, you know, they are killing those people. It's like they went from the front of the line to the very back. And, and you look at them when we're teaching these guys, we're consulting with them, you realize, whoa, man, you got a long way to go. You don't, I mean, like you've got a lot to learn to get to what the levels that you are selling out in the galleries, you know? And these other people that have been doing it for a couple years are way ahead of you. And so that's the reason that is like the case right there for why you got to get started on this right away. If you take yourself seriously as a photographer or artist, right? You can't wait around on this.
Nick Friend: It's, it's really interesting. You ever see "There Will Be Blood," Daniel Day-Lewis?
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, he was really good in that. Did he win an Academy Award for that? He should have.
Nick Friend: Method actor, genius. But the, the analogy, you're like, you know, the ones that are executing, the ones that understand the digital game are, are sucking the oxygen out of the market, right? Like they're the ones, it literally makes me think of the, the scene, you know, in the bowling alley at the end where, where the pastor, you know, that whatever, like the pastor that comes back in and he's like, Daniel, I finally had this plot to sell you, right? Like I finally had this plot to sell. I've been sitting on the sidelines thinking I have this incredible thing the whole time. And Daniel Day-Lewis is like, I've got a straw, right? You know, you say you're just sucking all that demand out of the market because you understand how that business has changed, right? He's sitting there in the old ways, stuck in his way thinking like, I've got this land and it's just going to produce for me whenever I want it to, right? Like, i.e., all the offline, I do not own my distribution channel sources. And then you, because you understand what this market now looks like, you know, like the way the oil business is advanced, you've got a straw and you just, you know, I drink your milkshake. I mean, that's literally what it is.
Patrick Shanahan: I only see that movie a long time, but yeah, that's the, that is the case. And it's like, we're putting it on a platter for you guys, right? Like we're literally putting it on a platter for you. Like there's, this is where the market is. This is exactly how you build a valuable fine art business. It's right there in front of you. The sooner you get started doing that, the better off it's going to be for you. The later you start, the worse off it's going to be. And so what do you know, what's going to happen, right? There's all the people that are, all the dinosaurs that are going to wait and like try to hope that they're going to go back to their galleries and their art shows. And then in five years or seven years, they're going to be like, the art market is terrible. It's not working anymore. And it's like, oh my gosh, what are you doing? This is, this is exactly what happened in 2008. I've been in the art industry since 2000, 2001, right? This is exactly what happened. I watched this, I watched this all happen. You know, at the same time when people in 2009, 2010, 2011, photographers and artists were telling me the market has never come back. Nobody's buying art anymore. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Because we were selling at my other company, Breathing Color, we were selling all
the canvas and the fine art paper and we saw where the market was, right? And so we're like, our business is growing and it's growing online. We know where it is. Are you selling in this venue at all? No, no. Of course, the world changes during every macroeconomic hit, right? And so the 2008 is a macroeconomic recession, major shift takes place, you know, people are tightening their belts, they're not, you know what I mean. So what do they do? They start doing searches online. They are finding better prices and better options. Oh, I can find this artist right here. I can find from this guy and this stuff's really good, you know, and I don't need to buy this $20,000 piece, you know, in person at this gallery where it's kept on, right, all the time. And so they, you know, people get creative. That was a true, you know, tighten your belt recessionary situation. That's not what we're in right now. We're in like a wealth shift situation, right? Like this is, this is a wealth transfer situation from companies that were, companies and workers that were affected by the pandemic to the ones that were not, right? It's, um, and those companies and their stock prices and their employees are getting raises, their stock prices are through the roof, they're hiring, they're, you know, building new plants and, you know, it's just, it's been wild for them, you know?
Nick Friend: Yeah, and it, you know, we're sitting here looking at it and it's like, we're to the point stages in our career where we've seen a lot, we've been through a lot, we've learned a ton of lessons, history constantly repeats itself. And really at the end of the day, all you're looking to do is have the right strategy, i.e. are not reliant on sources of revenue you don't control, i.e. you have a digital marketing plan, you understand things have shifted and you start working on it. And then the other piece is perspective, right? And I love, I love the driving analogy and I've given the driving analogy before, but you know, the last couple of weekends I've been going to the desert, which is like a two-hour drive from my house. And prior to that, years previous, I would used to go to the bottom right-hand corner of California, which was like twice the drive to the desert to ride motorcycles. And when I would do that drive to go ride the motorcycles, I would pass through the desert like it was nothing, like no big deal at all, right? Like rolling. And then now when I start getting close to the desert, I start getting antsy. Like, am I there yet? Am I there yet? Like, oh God, you know, my back starts shifting, my kids start annoying me, like, oh my gosh, even you become like mentally fatigued a little bit, right? Because in your mind, that's the drive that you're taking, right? And what no one understands is how important the perspective piece is, right? And it's got to be slow and steady. Every artist not, and now I've got this vision in my head, it's like the vast majority of artists and photographers are looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, right? What do we know? There is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Actually, there is, there actually is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The problem is, is the drive to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is a really, really long one. It's a really, really long one. So if you're in the car and you realize it's a really, really long drive, your perspective is aligned and you're going in a good role. What does everyone else do? They take an hour drive, they get out of the car and there goes the pot of gold. Pot of gold around here, anyone got it? And then they get frustrated because they didn't find it and they give up.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah, absolutely.
Nick Friend: They tried it for three months or maybe they take another hour drive and then they take 15 little hour drives and they just go, yeah, I can't find it, I can't get it. It's like, no, no, if you want the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, get in the car and come driving for the next five to seven years because that's where it is.
Patrick Shanahan: That's where it is, exactly. And even seven to ten.
Nick Friend: Yep, and that's in any business, in any industry, right?
Patrick Shanahan: It's in every business, in every industry and it all comes down to the mindset. And so, you know, you take ten of you, you take ten artists and photographers, put them in front of me, okay? Show me their art, like, let's say average art to incredible art, okay? I will invest, and you say, Nick, you got to invest in one person, right? You got to invest in one. I will ask them that question, right? And the person who, you know, I will, I will invest in the average artist or photographer all day long, all day long over the artist or photographer with incredible art if that, if the average one has the right mindset about how long it takes and the type of work that they have to do to just build a business, right? It's not that just build an art business, build any business, build any business, right? Because that's the guy who's going to, that's the guy or gal who's going to win, period. I know when, I know what the talented one is going to do. In fact, I almost want to stay away from the talented one. You know why? Because they're privileged, right? Like, they are entitled. They're like, I am so good and everybody's told me I'm so good that I should just be able to make one post and send out one email and I should sell $10,000. Otherwise, this doesn't work, email doesn't work, art doesn't sell online, you know, or this business is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? All of the excuses. And I see it all the time. Do you know where we see it a lot? We actually see it with, with artists and photographers like during this pandemic. It's like, it's like a visceral thing that's in my head is the ones that were selling in galleries, right? They were selling in some galleries, thought they were big shots, right? The galleries closed, they got the rug pulled right out from underneath them. And then they, they start doing some digital marketing, selling online for the first time themselves. They've never done anything, never built a social following, never sold direct to their customers, right? And then they try, they try it for like a month and they're like, way, way, way, way, way, you know, instantly, it doesn't work. And then you look at what they're doing and you're like, everything you did was literally awful. Like you have no idea what you're doing. Awful. Like you're the worst person I've ever seen at digital marketing.
Patrick Shanahan: Your expectation of what they're talking about. Oh, well, everybody likes the post. And it's like, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. You know, if you still think that likes on your post matter for your business, you have bigger problems than anyone. Okay. You got to get that stuff into email addresses to turn that into leads. Like as you say, right? You can't pull money out of the ATM machine for likes, right? You got to or follower accounts, right? You've got to turn those things into actual leads and sales. Otherwise it doesn't matter. You don't understand. No, it's like, so the privilege, the entitlement of, you know, people that have really good art, like maybe sold in some galleries. I hate to say it, but they've got, they've got like 20 pound weights on their, on their ankles dragging to try to do this. Like it's going to be hard for them. So if that's you, I got to tell you, you better come in with a beginner's mindset to, to building, you know, your own art gallery business because you just don't know how to do it. You just don't. And there's the sooner you realize that the better off you are. There was a guy, there's a guy, there's a member on our platform that I had to have a talk with about this. And he's like, you know, he's got good work. He's a photographer and he's like, he's one of these people, right? Who had that mindset. And I, and I had to talk with him and I said, and he's like, you know, the, the, the social media, it's not working, you know? And this is Matt Wang, right? Basically like when, and I talked to him and I said, I want to tell you something. I want to tell you something and it's going to be very hard to hear. Okay. There are photographers and artists who never sold anything before. Never, ever. Not in a gallery, not anywhere. Who joined Art Storefronts after you, like in the last couple of weeks or the last month or two. And they're beating you. And he was like, jaw dropped to the ground. I'm like, they're beating you. They're beating you. Like, how do you explain that? And you know what he said? You know what he said? He goes, Nick, thank you so much for the kick in the butt. You're right. It's totally in my head. Yeah. It's totally in my head. I'm going to, I'm going to try to turn this around. And I'm like, I hope you do. I don't
know if you will, because it's poison. It's totally poison. You know what I mean? The poison of thinking that it's going to be easier for you, you know, because you, you've sold in galleries. You have to learn the skill set to sell direct and build, build your own business. You know what I mean? Like, and, and, and that takes time. It takes time.
Nick Friend: It takes time. You have to have that perspective. You have to...
Patrick Shanahan: You just got to execute on it.
Nick Friend: Execute on it. Anything else we need to...
Patrick Shanahan: Make that like, you know, we have these lives more than anything else to just flesh out our thoughts, see, see what we're learning, looking at our customers' businesses and our non-customers on the calls. And it's like, you know, the same stuff just keeps bubbling up. It just keeps bubbling up. Exact same themes again and again and again. And getting emotional about where the attention is, is a damn consistent one too, right? Like, you know, case in point, the, the gentleman you talk to, like, no one cares what you did before. Social media, whether you like it or not, is where the attention is. You go to where the attention is, you acquire more of it, your business grows. That's it.
Nick Friend: Yes, exactly.
Patrick Shanahan: Not any more difficult than that. And sitting there and getting emotional about it is a recipe for disaster. Thinking that just because you don't like it or you, someone's told you that it's ineffective or because you tried it with the wrong strategy and got nowhere is, is self-limiting belief that will kill you.
Nick Friend: It will. Yeah, so for sure. You know, not getting emotional about where the attention is, having the perspective of how long it takes, realizing it's a bunch of small wins that make the big ones, realizing how long it'll take to get to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Like, you got to get started right away. You got to have the perspective. You have to have the right strategy, pressure over time. And we sound like a broken record on it, but I don't see any reason to stop. It's the same medicine that we're eating.
Patrick Shanahan: It is, exactly. And, and for those of you who just, you know, who are hearing this, it's like changing your mindset to have the right perspective. It's like that is, that is one of the biggest things that you can do. You think that like painting a new piece is like the thing that's going to take you to the next level or one magic marketing tactic. Actually, it's fixing your head. Most of all, that's what we see, right? Because it's misconceptions that, what happens is they start messing with your mind. You start getting depressed about it. Like, you think that you're a failure. You know, you think that things should happen, that you, you have total wrong information in your head about the timing of things and how quickly successes should happen. And then when they don't happen, you're like, you're so bent out of shape about it. It makes you miserable. It makes you demotivated. But that was all based on a false premise, right? It's all, it's like, if you talk to any other, if you knew that other successful artists and photographers went through the exact same thing and it took longer, you might be like, oh, I didn't realize that this was actually going to take that much longer. I was just whining and complaining and getting like all demotivated really for nothing. Like, I mean, you could have talked to one of these people and they could have told you like, hey, if that's what you're going to do, just don't even do it, right? Just don't even do it. Don't even bother. You're just going to like, if that's your expectation, like, you're just going to be, here, I'll predict the future for you. Here's my crystal ball. You're going to be miserable in one month from now. You're going to be miserable in 30, in 90 days from now. You know what I mean? It's like, it's so easy to predict. So if you can fix that, you're on such a better path already. And the other thing is too, is that like, you know, there's so many people that we see, this is the other part, just sitting on the sidelines, right? They've been an artist or photographer for many, many years. They're hung up on details and details and details about whether it's this or that. And it's like, you gotta just go.
Nick Friend: It's all good.
Patrick Shanahan: It's all gotta be perfect. Wouldn't you gotta go? If you don't get in the game, you're not building leads. You're not building a following. You're not doing anything. You gotta get in the game. You gotta get whatever is in your way. And you don't know whether you're going to launch limited editions or originals or open editions. You're going to sell them together or your prices. Just go. Please just go. You gotta get in the game. You gotta get in the game.
Nick Friend: You're on the sideline on your couch, in your living room, drawing up all your wonderful plays, but you're not suited up. You're not at the stadium. You're not in the game.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah. And you know what?
Nick Friend: No one's on the field.
Patrick Shanahan: It turns out you gotta score any goals. Let me tell you, whatever pricing you choose is going to be wrong first. I don't care what it is. It's going to be wrong. You're going to end up changing it. So just launch, right? Whatever your setup is, you're going to change it because the market, until you get the feedback from the market, the market is the ultimate truth. You've got to get to that market. If you realize that, you realize like, oh my, this, I need to get to the market fast because I'm just in my head and I'm like talking about, do I need an LLC or do I just, can I just launch right now? Do I need sales taxes or can I just launch right now? Do I need open editions or should I just launch? Do I need this? Get like, do I need all these different categories, you know, or can I just launch? You need to just launch because the feedback from the market is, you need truth. You need truth. And when you need truth, that's why we tell, you know, our members, the Art Storefronts members, like, you got to launch because you're asking us a question we can't answer. We'll give you a general like, yes, that's fine, duh, because we need you to launch and we need to see what happens in order to figure out what the next move is. There's going to be, it'll be a fork in the road, right? Three moves, we will know which one to take. But if you got to ship it first.
Nick Friend: Yeah, everybody's looking for the secret map, the secret guide, right? Like, you know, just, just tell me what it's going to be. And you know, it takes, it takes a good deal of experience to realize like, no one can tell you, no one can tell you.
Patrick Shanahan: It's the wrong question.
Nick Friend: Yeah, it's the wrong question. Anybody that answers your question is, you have to realize there is probably an 80% chance they're wrong, right? Including me, and I've been doing this for 20 years, right? I will generally give you some good, good idea. But what I, what I know the right answer is, I know how to get to the right answer, right? So you want an answer to your question. I'm actually answering your question because the right answer is you need to get your stuff in the water. You need to get in the game and we need to iterate, iterate, iterate. And we get the right answer in three months and that'll save you for the next five years. That'll get you on the right path for the next five years, right? That's the answer. It's the game within the game, right? It's never the question that you think you need to answer. It's the question behind the question.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we got a, we got a member private member workshop at, at one o'clock in, in 25 minutes. So I got to grab some lunch, but you know what this one's going to, you know what I love about this is that what are we focused on? Lead acquisition.
Nick Friend: It's the best, right?
Patrick Shanahan: Lead acquisition. That's right. Everybody needs more traffic. Everybody needs more eyeballs. And that is the focus today because we just finished the Father's Day marketing playbook, not just finished. Everybody's been running it for the last two weeks or week and a half, right? Just finished acquisition, close all those sales. Everybody's closing, closing, closing. We're back to lead acquisition and romance marketing, right? So all the members that are on this, make sure you're there today. It's going to be great. And we're back to lead acquisition because you got to get more eyeballs. You've got to get more, build your audience, get more emails. That's how you build your business. So I get excited because I love this part. This is the part that nobody focuses on, you know, outside of Art Storefronts. Usually they're always focused on, you know, they make a social media post or they tinker with their website, but you got to get a lot of people seeing your work. You've got to get a
lot. And that's what we're focused on.
Nick Friend: Yep. Game on.
Patrick Shanahan: All right. Let me, let me say a final thing for anybody that's looking to join Art Storefronts. The summer sale was announced today, right? For June, we've got a summer sale. So get a demo request in on Instagram, link in the bio, on Facebook, there's a link in the posts. You can always just go to the website. There's always a request a demo button in the right-hand corner and hit that. Get in the queue. Don't wait till the end because we get booked up and the spots get taken. So if you want to join, it's a great time to join. So highly recommend doing that. And one of our people will reach out to you when you request a demo, answer all your questions and go over pricing. And tomorrow we will be having a session, right? What was the time? Is it, it's 3 p.m. Central. Is that right?
Nick Friend: Yeah, 3 p.m. Central, 1 p.m. Pacific, 4 p.m. Eastern.
Patrick Shanahan: Yeah. So that's for non-customers. Non-customers and get on our email list and like us on Facebook. But we will be doing a Zoom call for non-customers to actually talk to you directly about why your art business is not moving forward, right? We want to talk. Let's talk. Let's figure out why is it not moving forward? Why is it not getting to the level that you want to get it to? Maybe you've hit a plateau, you know, and you can't get to the next level. What is it? Or what are the details you're getting hung on that you think, you know, you need to settle before you can get in the game?
Nick Friend: Perfect, perfect questions, perfect roadblocks that, that we could help you with. So if you're not an Art Storefronts customer, come to the session tomorrow. We can help.
Patrick Shanahan: Yep. Nothing done. All right. We'll leave it there. Thank you guys. See ya.
